BJ7 Gear reduction starter and starter ring gear orientation

[RestoreThemAll]

It looks like the gear reduction starter, Moss 540-420 would require that the ring gear on the flywheel be flipped around the opposite way it was originally installed. Is that correct? The original installation of the ring gear is with the lead of the teeth facing toward the transmission because the gear on the starter shaft pulls back toward the starter to engage the ring gear, correct? With the gear reduction starter the gear on the starter shaft pushes away from the starter toward the transmission, right?

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=42340

Dale

 

[Griz]

Dale,

I hope you are wrong because I just put a Moss reduction starter on my BJ7 and did not reverse the gear ring on the flywheel. I read the instructions several times before installation and nothing was mentioned about having to do that. Seems I did notice that the gear on the starter unit had beveled teeth on the leading (engagement) edge that would act the same as the beveled teeth on the ring gear with a "normal" starter. Besides that, if the ring gear was reversed on the flywheel wouldn't the bevel on the teeth be facing the wrong way?

Griz

 

[RestoreThemAll]

The two pics show a comparison of the starters. The original has a beveled leading edge that engages the ring gear from the transmission side, right? The gear reduction seems to engage the ring gear from the engine side but has a flat edge on the starter shaft gear. I don't have a pic of the ring gear but I believe that the beveled edge is on the transmission side to match up with the original starter.

I'm hoping that someone like Randy Forbes who's installed the gear reduction before will weigh in.

Dale

 

[Superwrench]

I already had my new ring gear in place when I decided to put a gear reduction starter on my BT-7. It works fine but, Dale is right and to be correct the ring gear should be flipped.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

Griz/Superwrench,

On the Moss gear reduction installation instructions there's a picture of the starter gear. It looks like there is a bevel on the starter gear shaft. Is that the case?

Dale

 

[steveg]

I believe the gear-reduction starter pinion is fully meshed to the ring gear all the time and engages via an overriding clutch. Therefore the pinion does not move, unlike the original which, on operation, engages forward into the ring gear. Therefore the non-beveled edges on the ring-gear teeth should be toward the front, meshed with the new starter pinion.

Moss refers to the installation as "fairly straightforward", which it would not be if the trans and flywheel had to be removed in order to flop the ring gear. People just bolt these things on.

 

[DerekJ]

I have a gear reduction starter, although not Moss it required no change to the ring gear. I can't believe the Moss version would require that either, unless they are totally incompetent.

 

[steveg]

I have a gear reduction starter, although not Moss it required no change to the ring gear. I can't believe the Moss version would require that either, unless they are totally incompetent.

The Moss item and yours are likely the same manufacture.

 

[Michael Oritt]

I think this is a non-issue.

I have installed various gear reduction starters on all my cars. I am not certain about the ring gear on the Ford-engined Ginetta but I know that on the Healey and both Elvas the original ring gears were all "oriented" toward a starter pinion that pulled in from the back whereas the pinion on all of the gear starters engage from the front.
Though it looks like there might not be a perfect mesh because of the lack of bevel on the front edge of the ring gears' teeth I have never experienced a problem with any of them not engaging properly.

 

[jjs64bj8]

I also installed a gear reduction starter on our 64 BJ8. I have experienced no issues, although car has only been started a few dozen time as we are still finishing restoration. Starter works great. In fact my ring gear if I would have used the original starter would probably have to have been replaced as many of the teeth were a little chewed up, the sides facing the tranny. But by using the geared starter I did not have to replace it, as it engages from the engine side. I too was concerned about not having the taper on the engine side of the ring gear but was told not to worry by the vendor.

Time will tell.

jjs64bj8

 

[GregoryW]

I installed a gear reduction starter 4 years ago, and did not reverse the ring gear. It works perfectly every time.

 

[Superwrench]

I believe the gear-reduction starter pinion is fully meshed to the ring gear all the time and engages via an overriding clutch. Therefore the pinion does not move, unlike the original which, on operation, engages forward into the ring gear. Therefore the non-beveled edges on the ring-gear teeth should be toward the front, meshed with the new starter pinion.

Moss refers to the installation as "fairly straightforward", which it would not be if the trans and flywheel had to be removed in order to flop the ring gear. People just bolt these things on.

These replacement starters are not engaged with the ring gear all the time. That would mean the small gear is spinning with the engine all the time ? They are engaged with the solenoid on top of the starter. They work fine with the ring gear in either direction. If I had to do it again I would switch my ring gear to aid in the meshing of the teeth. Maybe Randy will chime in ?

 

[RestoreThemAll]

Below is from Moss Tech. Very nice video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITFW2PkqXWw
The above video will help.
You don't have to turn your flywheel around.
The pinion gear only contacts the flywheel when it is at work. The rest of the time it is retracted back.
The teeth on the leading edge of the pinion gear are beveled to mesh as they should with the flywheel.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Before somebody coined the phrase gear reduction starter, these types were commonly referred to as pre-engaged starters, as the ring and pinion are engaged before the current flows to the motor.

I installed one nearly a decade ago, and never looked back! The one thing you'll be most startled by, the first time you go to use it, is how quickly the engine starts; mine started up so fast that I thought something was wrong and immediately shut it off! After laughing at myself, I hit the button again, and BAM, instant life!

 

[RestoreThemAll]

You can't say that about too many things on an old LBC.
Dale

 

[Bob_Spidell]

You can't say that about too many things on an old LBC.
Dale

How about:

1) Pertronix or other solid state ignition switch
2) Lempert 3.54 rear end
3) 4-row radiator core
4) Synthetic gearbox and differential oil (engine oil too, if you think it's worth it)
5) PCV valve
6) Spin-on oil filter adapter

All add to reliability and/or maintainability without changing the essential nature of the car.

 

[RestoreThemAll]

I agree Bob.
I have a 4 row radiator, updated modern oil, and spin on oil filter adapter.
The pcv is on my list. I'm still undecided on the Pertronix but I'll take that to another thread. I'm sure it's been hashed out many times so I'll search the forum for input.

BTW: I ordered a gear reduction starter yesterday.

Dale

 

[Michael McCrae]

I'm not even to that point yet with mine. I went out today to replace the starter with the GR unit and noticed the head of the lower starter bolt is above the slave cylinder of the clutch. Well, I can't remove the slave unit because I can't get access to the upper bolt holding the slave cylinder on. Does this mean I have to remove to tunnel for access?

Thanks in advance,
Mike McCrae