TR6 75 tr6 thrust washers

[floyd]

I was scared there for awhile...now I need to know what I'm looking for.
I'm still trying to get this car ready for a road test,brakes are functional, carbs are cleaned, tuned as good as I can get them for now. I know the throttle bushings are leaking. While on that subject, I do feel a little movement in the bushing. But...whats the chances of just replacing the seals and that solving the leaking problem? not a good fix?
Anyhow, It's ready to put on the road and just so happen to think all this thrust washer talk I have read here. So I pushed the crank back and the little one climbed in and push down on the clutch. Not what I wanted to see...so I try it again...still not good. It moved probably a 1/8 to 3/16, just guessing. So I'm fearing the worst, falling washers. The car has 90K on it, so how has the p.o. driven this with trust washers laying in the pan.
I drained the oil and dropped the pan, no washers to be found in the bottom. I've read around and looked in the Bentleys, Moss, and Vict. book and boy am i confused.
How many are there....are they just at the rear of the engine at the #4 main bearing...and if they are how are they situated? I'd like to know want I'm looking at and for when I do take out the bearing cap.
Thank again.....

 

[Guest]

Remove the rear bearing cap and the thrust washers should be sitting right on top of the crank. Slip them out and slide in new ones. Chances of your needing oversized thrust washers is slim. Make certain that you torque the cap back on with the proper torque settings, with a good torque wrench. Also, make sure you put the new washers in with the proper wear surface against the crank journal.

 

[DNK]

Get the better washers.

 

[guzzul]

Check out Paul Tegler's site:
https://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/thrustwashers.htm

This is for a Spitfire, but the TR6 should be pretty close. It will show you where the thrust washers are located.

If you can't find them installed, and you didn't find them dropped in the pan...that would be bad.

 

[AltaKnight]

If you can't find them installed, and you didn't find them dropped in the pan...that would be bad.

I agree, very bad news if that's the case. It would mean the DPO has been running it with the crankshaft face pressing directly against the block casting particularly when the clutch is depressed, usually the crank will wear badly in a short amount of time requiring machining at best and replacement possible.

 

[floyd]

Well...I dont recall that I had been drinking when I was looking at the movement of the crank the first time. But I check the movement again but this time tried to get some sort of measurement. What I did was clamped a utility knife blade to the steel tube that is in front of crankshaft pulley so the point of the blade is resting tight againist the pulley with the crank in the forward postion. I then forced the crank towards the rear and used a feeler guage to measure the gap. I tried it 3 or 4 times and came up with .013".
So...I'm alittle confused on how these washers are sized. In order to find out what size i need, do i take out both washers or just the rear one and measure the play then size the washers? I've read different things on which one really get the wear. Is it the front one or the rear one? And what do they mean by the washers being .015 oversized? Is that the standard .090"+ .015. Or do you double up standard + .015?

 

[70herald]

If it is only moving 0.013, then most likely the thrust washer is still in place. What you need to do is take out the old washer and see what is stamped on the back. From the outside, there is no way you can tell if the crank was machined in the past or not.
After you take the pan off, and pull out the rear thrust washer the oversize dimension is on the back. After you put a new thrust washer, you can measure remaining play in the crank, but you need accurately sized thrust washers to start in the first place.
When you pull off the pan, if the surfaces look good, just order the exact same size that was in there, and you should be fine.
Also, if the front and rear thrust washers are different sizes, put the new washers back in the same location (ie same size / same place)

 

[guzzul]

In order to find out what size i need, do i take out both washers or just the rear one and measure the play then size the washers?

Check out this thread:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/u...true#Post320980
That's how I checked mine. The 'standard' size is supposed to be .090". A .005" oversize is .095", a .010" oversize is .100" and so on. As noted in my post, however, when I actually measured the new ones with a micrometer I found some variations. I would strongly recommend a micrometer measurement of the ones coming out and the ones going in.

70Herald's post notes that the sizes are stamped on the back. They are when new, and your marks may still be there, however the stamps on my old ones were worn off, so I had to measure them.

Is that the standard .090"+ .015. Or do you double up standard + .015?

Each washer is oversized. I.e. each washer is .090" (std) or 095" (oversize). So the total you are putting in is the sum total of both the washers. You can put in two different sizes (e.g. .095" in the back and .090" in front) if you have to, but I would try and maintain symmetry as close as possible between front and back. In my case, I just couldn't squeeze in two oversize washers, otherwise I would have put in two .095's.

I've read different things on which one really get the wear. Is it the front one or the rear one?

Its probably an academic question as both will be worn and both will need to be replaced. Also, while the oversize washers are a little more 'beefy', the alloy facing on them is not any thicker. The extra size comes from the steel washer itself and not the alloy facing from what I can see.

There are other postings on the forum about an all-alloy washer, which would seem to maybe not wear as quickly.

 

[TR3driver]

There are other postings on the forum about an all-alloy washer, which would seem to maybe not wear as quickly.

There is also a modification that seems to be popular here on the West coast; to double the washers (and so double the thrust surface). But the bearing cap has to be modified by a machine shop to accept the second set of washers.

 

[floyd]

Thanks for all the input,
Where would one suggest getting the washers from. Being a good quality that would hold up. Does the 3 suppliers offer the same grade, or go with the Scott Helms.

 

[tomshobby]

Floyd, did you see the photos I posted?

I was convinced before that just by looking at Scott's site. Then I happened to see these three bearings side by side and could not believe the difference.

And Scott will make whatever size you need for the same price as standard.

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/u...true#Post308070

 

[guzzul]

Where would one suggest getting the washers from...Does the 3 suppliers offer the same grade, or go with the Scott Helms.

My inclination would be to go with Scott's. If I did them again (and I may well have to one day) that's what I would do.

Its going to be a little more fiddly because you'll want to get the old ones out and figure out what sizes you'll need - as opposed to pre-ordering a range of sizes (not sure if Scott allows you to order a few sizes and return what you don't need). And also it will be more expensive. But in the long term, if you only have to do this job once instead of two or three times, the expense difference is not really a big factor.

I ordered mine from TRF. They were only $7 a set when I got them. I ordered a standard set and a .005" oversize on spec. I noticed one set of washers was made in India (the oversize), the other set appears to be UK-made, but both were labelled as "Product of UK". They look exactly the same as the ones in Tom's photo.

I would imagine the big three get their stuff from the same suppliers. I don't see much difference, frankly, between the "UK" and the Indian washer.

 

[Norton47]

Hi
Is the TR6 crank end float spec the same as the Spitfire. Which is listed as .004 - .008?
My Bentley manual on page 133 says see data, but no data listing like they usually do.

 

[tomshobby]

Hi Norton, in my Bentley it is on the very bottom of page 108.
.006 - .008

.004 might be a little tight and not lubricate as well.

Knowing this is a soft spot in the engine design, I always start my engine with the tranny in neutral and my foot off the clutch pedal. Same while waiting at a stop sign or light. Hopefully this way the thrust bearing will have as good of lubrication as possible when it is under load and be used as little as necessary.

I feel the startup is most important because that would normally be after the oil has drained down.

At least it makes me feel better, and, the thrust bearings that were replaced had no discernible wear after 46k miles.

 

[Norton47]

Thanks Tomshobby
I found it on page 108, I knew I had seen it once before.
I like your idea's on minimizing wear on the thrust washer.
I also try to minimize having the clutch depressed as much as possible and do so also on my bikes.

 

[floyd]

Ok...I got ahold of a dial indicator and checked the endplay. .011"
I went ahead and took out both washers and then check the play and a got .076". Recheck it couple of times and came out the same each time. Put the pan back on just to keep anything out of there. Since i forgot to get a micrometer too, I mounted the dial indicator to the top of my castiron tablesaw top and checked the thickness of the washers. The rear washer averaged .090", the front varied .093-.094".
But after I got all cleaned up and was thinking about it, I started to get really confused. If I took out both washers how was the endplay just .076"??
Before I head back out there and back into it, again I'm asking for opinions...advice....thoughts
And maybe my .011" endplay with the washers in wasn't correct.

 

[Bugeye58]

Floyd, with the washers removed, the crank won't travel fully into contact with the washer seating surfaces. It's limited by the connecting rods on the journals, for one thing.
So, assuming your initial .011" reading was correct, you need about .005" more total washer thickness to bring everything into spec.
Jeff

 

[floyd]

I think i'm slowly getting there. My rear washer measurement varied .089-.091" So, i ordered a set of .005" oversized sinced i needed to gain .005". Well...what i got was one that was one that varied .097-.0975" and the othe at .096-.0965" . . I'm thinking just keep the old front one in and use the .096" one and see what i end up with. And i did notice when I got the new washers that there was 2 labels overlapped. The bottom label was "made in india" and the label on top of that one had "product of united kingdom" So...which is it?
My engine is in the need of a rebuild so i didnt go with the Scott Helms washers yet until I get the car on the road for a test drive to see the overall condition of the car.
I only have two questions.
1) what kind of lube can I use on the bearing shell since i wiped it clean to inspect it when I reinstal it?
2) This one i can smack myself for. When i took off the bearing cap, I laid it on the bench facing the way i took it off. Went on with getting the washers out. Later I picked up the cap not paying attention which way i had it laying. So....looking at the Bentley book, Whjen I put it back on, I just keep the recess in the cap above the recess in the mating surface (journal)?
Thanks again for your help.

 

[hondo402000]

I bet if you put standard washers back in you will come back into OEM specs. I did my thrust washers a few months ago, my crank play was around 013, I tried using +005 washers and they wouldnt go in, so I put in new STD ones, checked the movement and is was back to .006.

have fun