Spitfire 67 MK2 Wiring

[thomaslea1]

Have a '67 MK@ in the garage for a friend of mine. I currently don't have a wiring diagram.

I initially thought that this car was originally a (+) earth. Am I right or wrong? Confusingly the red battery cable goes to (-) and the black to (+).

Well, I was wrong. The red cable is hooked to the (-) battery terminal.

Other than the battery connections is there a way to verify that the car has been converted? We currently have no spark and were going to convert to the Pertronix system. We ordered the system for (+) earth, but now I'm afraid to install it.

Is there an on-line wiring diagram?

 

[NutmegCT]

Thomas - this should give you some help:

Triumph Herald and Vitesse/Sports 6 database; Find the numbers!

www.fairpoint.net

Tom M.

Edit: Negative ground didn't start until the Mk3 Spitfire.

 

[thomaslea1]

Thanks. Helped a lot. At least I know it was originally (+) earth. Now it's (-) earth!
Someone has converted it.
Time to call Pertronix (as soon as I find out if the current owner just might have installed the battery backwards)!

 

[NutmegCT]

Battery in backwards? That's not as rare as you might think. Most folks don't notice that the battery posts are different diameters, and "cobble" the cable terminals to fit - sorta.

Anyway, good luck with the job.
Tom M.

 

[thomaslea1]

The plot thickens. Battery IS installed (-) earth.
No spark. Installed Ign sys is a Crane Fireball XR700. Power wire from Ign sw is +12V. The coil is a Lucas with the (+) terminal wired to earth and the (-) to the Crane. Coil measures 3 Ohms across )+( and (-) and 8K+ Ohms from the tower to the (=) or (-). Coil seems good. No arc from the coil tower high tension lead to earth while cranking.
This all has to go!
BUT: pulling the system out of the distributer I find this: for some reason someone brazed the breaker plate to the body nulling the vacuum advance.
I'm not a Spitfire guy, but is this at all normal?

Rotor direction is CCW viewed from the top.
Fan is CCW viewed from the driver seat.

 

[NutmegCT]

Many Crane Fireball drivers would disconnect the vacuum advance, which interferes with the Fireball system. But I don't think they'd physically muck up the distributor to do that. Jeez - just disconnect the vacuum tube.

You'll need the vacuum advance for a standard points system.

 

[thomaslea1]

Dremell here I come.

 

[Sarastro]

The Crane is a much better system than the Pertronix. If you can make it work, it's worth keeping.

I had a crane on my Bugeye Sprite, and never had a problem in using it with vacuum advance. Might be some kind of special case.

If I were in your situation, I'd start shopping for a good used distributor. That brazing might be an attempt to get around some other, more serious problem.

 

[thomaslea1]

From what I can find out the Crane system is no longer made and individual parts are hard to come by. The correct Pertronix will be here shortly.
I ran an early Pertronix im my MGB for the better part of 20 years with no problems. Hard to switch.
Cleaned off the braze last night. Didn't realize that the breaker plate assy came out easily, removing 3 screws. Mr Dremell and I cut our way thru the braze. Now to clean it up and put back in.
Still hard to believe that someone went thru the trouble to braze the plates together rather that just taking the vacuum line off.

 

[Sarastro]

Still hard to believe that someone went thru the trouble to braze the plates together rather that just taking the vacuum line off.

Well, yes, that was my concern. If the guy went to that much trouble, it may well have been for more than just eliminating the advance. If so, I suspect you'll discover what it was.

The Crane XR700 is still in existence. Crane went belly-up and another company named FAST took over. They still call it the XR700; see, for example, https://www.amazon.com/700-0300-Electronic-Ignition-Conversion-Distributor/dp/B000CCFH8G

The Crane is a real, capacitive-discharge, multispark ignition. The Pertronix is just an electronic switch, which replaces the points. There are well founded concerns regarding reliability and susceptibility to electromagnetic interference with certain models. I'm also concerned about the way they do magnetic triggering, which could easily result in some cylinders being timed badly. There are a lot of design compromises necessary to fit it all into that little package.

 

[thomaslea1]

It gets better day-by-day.
In the PO's neverending quest to prevent anyone from using vacuum advance (s)he not only brazed the breaker plate in 3 places, but squezed the vacuum advance nipple! Sorry, not a great picture.

 

[NutmegCT]

Gak - that guy had a lot of free time ...

Do you have a replacement distributor on the way?

 

[mezy]

Lookinjg at the picture, the only reason i can see for him doing that is the diaphragm in the advance is leaking, and instead of just capping off the pipe, he has done it this way to keep it looking as it should,
My guese is the dizzy is Fubar.