Test Starting Engine

[Richter12x2]

I've got the GT6's engine back on the frame and oil in it, and I'm excited to hear it do something other than suck out the wallets of anyone who touches it, but this is my first old car, and there are some things I'm hoping to clear up before I fire it up.

Prelude - I'd like to turn it over without spark to make sure the oil circulates around. I built it with plenty of assembly lube, but I'd still feel better with real Castrol pumping through its veins. With 5 quarts in, I should be able to just connect negative to the starter bolt, and positive to the lead going into the back of the starter, and it should turn over, right? Or is there some other piece I'm missing. The starter turns on the bench when I run it that way, but when I put it on the engine, I just get a little click and no noise or motion (other than a pretty good draw on the battery).


Test Firing - After that part's done, I'm not 100% clear on what power connections I'm going to need to get it going. All the ignition HT leads, sure. After that, I should just need electric to the coil, right? I remember something about a 6v coil, so obviously hooking up a 12v battery would probably be bad. Also, in my mind, one side of the coil connects to the battery, the other side would connect to the (single) spade lead coming out of the distributor. What exactly needs to be connected and how? This was just about a basket case when we got it, and that was a year ago.

Then, just to do a quick, maybe 1 minute start in the driveway, is hooking up the radiator and all the coolant lines a requirement? Obviously you would before run in, but I didn't know if it was necessary before you even started it.

Thanks in advance for all the help!

 

[KSIS]

https://www.356registry.org/Tech/images/engine_running_stand_diagram/engine_running_stand_diagram.pdf[/url]

This may get you started. I had my buddy start a GT6 engine in the back of his pick up truck. No radiator needed. Just dont let it run long.

I know it would be nice to hear it run but a quick start on a fresh motor isnt good. I would wait, prime the engine by spinning the oil pump with a drill then run it the first time to break it in. Having the build lube in a fresh motor is better than having motor oil if it is going to set a while.

 

[UltimateQuestion]

Considering the noise issue in the other thread - maybe a muffler?

 

[TR4nut]

Not sure what shape your valve train is in, but typical run in recommendation is 20 minutes at 2000 rpm, no blipping. Even with old lifters/cam I think I'd do the same, which means radiator and coolant. Just my opinion!

 

[dklawson]

6V coil? If this is your Mk1 project with its standard ignition components, the coil will be a standard 3 Ohm type which runs on full 12V.

As suggested above, a muffler is a good idea. The 2000 RPM for 20 minutes also suggested above is what I was told to do when breaking in a new cam and lifters.

As you said, the starter motor should work fine as you connected it (one battery connection to the engine block, the second to the hot lug on the starter motor). A Mk1 GT6 would normally have a Bendix type starter. Have you perhaps fitted a gear reduction starter or other pre-engaged type?

 

[angelfj1]

Before you run the engine, you should check for oil pressure. You can do this by spinning the distributor drive with a cordless drill.

 

[Richter12x2]

6V coil? If this is your Mk1 project with its standard ignition components, the coil will be a standard 3 Ohm type which runs on full 12V.

Awesome, so, + from battery to positive side of the coil and the stator in the distributor switches ground, is that how it works?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]As suggested above, a muffler is a good idea. The 2000 RPM for 20 minutes also suggested above is what I was told to do when breaking in a new cam and lifters.[/QUOTE] We'll do what we can, but the old one is pretty much shot, the plan was to basically take it straight to a muffler shop, or to fab one up in the garage.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]
As you said, the starter motor should work fine as you connected it (one battery connection to the engine block, the second to the hot lug on the starter motor). A Mk1 GT6 would normally have a Bendix type starter. Have you perhaps fitted a gear reduction starter or other pre-engaged type?[/QUOTE] I think I've heard it called the long nose starter, it has a long shaft (don't giggle) that pulls in when you turn it on. Like I said, it works OFF the car, and turns free if you put a wrench on the little nib on the front, but seems to lack the strength to turn the car over. It's sat for a bit, maybe if I give it a turn with the bar first, and a little oil in the spark plug holes it'll have the strength to get going?

So to actually run the thing, electrically speaking, I just connect a wire from positive jumper cable to + side of coil, then negative side of cable to engine ground, and touch the main positive of cable to the starter positive lug and it should go, right? I know it should be common knowledge maybe, but all the coils I've worked with thus far have been computer controlled. :laugh:

 

[Lewis_McDorman]

You should drain the new oil (sorry) and replace it with oil containing zinc. Valvoline makes one. It's supposed to be better for break-in period. If you ;eave the Castrol in for this one startup, you should replace it before you drive the car.

Also, it sounds like this startup is just to relieve your curiosity. If that's the case, and it'll be a while before you run it again, pull the spark plugs, squirt a little oil in each cylinder and run the pistons up and down a couple of times. Then put the plugs back in.

 

[dklawson]

There have been a lot of discussions on this site concerning ZDDP (zinc additive) and motor oil. You may wish to search for some of them. Regardless, there are many additives you can put in the crankcase as a ZDDP supplement.

Yes, the "long shaft" starter motors are Bendix-type. It should spin up just as you described both on the bench and on the engine block. The ground path for the motor is its mounting flange and bolt to the engine back plate. I can't remember if the GT6 has the aluminum spacer to correctly position the starter. Regardless, make sure you have good, clean, metal-to-metal contact between all the flat surfaces where the starter motor bolts up. FWIW, on our GT6 and our Spitfire I have run a ground cable directly to one of the starter motor mounting bolts.

You have the ignition system correct. 12V power in on coil (+), a white/black wire between coil (-) and the dizzy, and the dizzy housing grounded to the block. When the points close and open, they make and break a ground path for current flowing through the coil. Don't forget to put the rotor in the dizzy. You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget to install. Also make sure you static time the engine before trying to start it.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Once I got my engine and radiator back in, I fabricated a simple control board. It had and on/off switch, start switch, oil pressure, and temperature. I also installed a coil ballast resister. A tach and dwell meter was also connected. Oh, and the exhaust was installed. I used a gas tank of a lawn mower for fuel.

With this set up I was able to do the cam break-in, then timing and carburetor adjustments.

 

[Richter12x2]

Seems it's just a little weak but engaging as it should be - I pulled the radiator and removed the fan so I could get at the front crank bolt and give it a turn by hand. Hit it with the juice and this time it turned over once. So I pulled the spark plugs and shot some MMO in from my air tool oiler into the top of the cylinders, then hit it again with the plugs out, and got it to turn over 15 or 20 times. After letting it come to a rest, went to hit it again and stuck again. Then put the plugs back in, gave the engine a nudge by hand and the starter turned it over a couple more times, so it seems like the timing is good (was worried that valve timing might have been off, not that I didn't check it 4 or 5 times before putting the front cover on, but always a nagging doubt in the back of your mind).

Any tips on where to go to recondition a starter? I know this stuff used to be done by little machine shop type things all over, and ever since I found the industrial supply store that rebuilds hydraulic hoses ($20 rebuild versus $240 for a new from Mazda) I'm more than happy to give these little shops my business.

Or maybe there's something I can do at home to get a bit more umph out of it? I'm really not looking to spend another couple hundred on a new starter if it can be avoided, and I like the idea of keeping the authentic one.

 

[Richter12x2]

. . . and unfortunately, "always park on a hill?" isn't an option I can live with. :laugh:

 

[UltimateQuestion]

Check your Yellow Pages (I know those are fossils) for a Auto electrical shop that does starters and alternators and electric motors. I've had one rebuilt many years ago in Shreveport LA so you should be able to find one in your metro area

 

[Roger]

Flower Mound's a long way from Rosenberg, but there's a great repair shop there that can rebuild your starter.

You don't say which Castrol, but I have it on good authority that Syntec 20-50 contains Zinc for old-fashioned engines like ours.

 

[glemon]

Don't know where Flower Mound is but yeah, find an auto electric shop that has been around a while and they should be able to rebuild. My local shop, in Nebraska not much help, rebuilds starters and generators for about $40 bucks, the guy that ran the shop said the british stuff isn't much different from 50s Ford or Chevy, can't remember which.

If you are adventurous you can take it apart yourself and see if anything obvious is wrong, like worn bushes, weak spring tension on bushes, dirty commutator, the shop manuals (Haynes, etc.) have a section on dissasembly and maintenance I beleive. I have taken a few apart and put them back together, I haven't always made them better, but I don't think I have ever broken one or made it worse, pretty sturdy and heavy duty components on the inside.

I know this is basic simple stuff (and please don't be insulted if you are already there) but make sure you have good ground and battery before you tear into the starter, pretty fresh painted cars don't always make for good ground connections, car looks great so far by the way.

 

[TR4nut]

. . . and unfortunately, "always park on a hill?" isn't an option I can live with. :laugh:

Yeah, I think that only works around Austin!

 

[Richter12x2]

We broke down and ordered a new old starter from Victoria British - hopefully that should get us going!