A step in the right direction.

[MattP]

https://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/

Those in specific states can get the Hybrid version of the Chevy Silverado. Too sweet. Not only for fuel economy, but it has 4 household current power points, nice for running tools ect. Sounds like an idea to me.

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[Bruce Bowker]

Price is not too outrageous either.

Now this thought is way out in left field, maybe even out of the ballpark but is it possible, and I really don't like conspiracy theories at all, that the manufacturers of these cars and the oil companies, maybe government too, could be planning to get a lot of these cars on the road and when they are substantial enough raise the cost of gas to say $ 10 gallon?

 

[MattP]

If I know the Oil cos and the Govt. Conspiritors(real or unreal as they may be), they would raise it to 10$ whether or not there were these vehicles on the road, if they were going to. The point in raising it would be to increase profit, so why not profit from a 9 mpg H2 rather than a 19 mpg version? Those just driving them for conspicous consumption would anyway. It would be those driving trucks from need that would get hurt, at least trucks like this could lessen the blow for them. IMHO

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
If I know the Oil cos and the Govt. Conspiritors(real or unreal as they may be), they would raise it to 10$ whether or not there were these vehicles on the road, if they were going to. The point in raising it would be to increase profit, so why not profit from a 9 mpg H2 rather than a 19 mpg version? Those just driving them for conspicous consumption would anyway. It would be those driving trucks from need that would get hurt, at least trucks like this could lessen the blow for them. IMHO

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points.

 

[aeronca65t]

Matt:

Thanks for pointing this out....I knew that Ford, Toyota and Honda was into hybrids, but I was unaware of the GM hybrid.
I have to tell you that I'm not a big fan of these things. It's my view that they distract efforts of more useful and sustainable fuel economy improvements.
The 2 WD hybrid Silverado cost $7500 (USD) more than the regular 1500 pickup but weighs more, reducing the effective load rating. It has more stuff to go wrong too. The U.S. federal fuel economy standards have been designed to encourage alternate designs. This is a good thing, but it tends to make hybrids look more economical than they really are. A number of articles that I've read indicate that hybrids are about equal in true operating cost to similar conventional vehicles.
Some of the foreign work trucks, such as the Isuzu NPR (also avialable as a "Chevy"), the Nissan UD and the Misubishi Fuso are much more economical than this hybrid and will carry greater loads. Of course, they are not as quiet or fancy. These are high-efficiency turbo-diesels....not really a new idea.
What I'd like to see is more work on direct fuel injection for gas-powered vehicles (diesels already use this).
I'd be the first to trade in my gas guzzling Chevy StepVan (my "race support truck") for a true fuel-efficient large truck. I'm not tempted by these hybrids at all (OK, I admit the AC power outlet is cool...but I already have a portable generator).

 

[Bret]

The strange thing about Hybrids is that you have to really look for fuel efficiency numbers and when you do find them they are just estimates. Is that a problem? Who knows - only time will tell I guess.

Anyway according to my search on the Silverado Hybrid it gets about 19 MPG city & 19 MPG highway - Slightly less for a 4x4. Not 100% sure about those numbers as they don’t agree with the numbers of other hybrids. But regardless we are talking about a full size truck so those numbers seem pretty good to me. Given that my Ford F-150 4x4 Supercrew gets between 11 & 13 in town and 15 to 17 on the highway.

A common trait of Hybrids that the Silverado doesn’t seem to share is what I found most interesting about of other Hybrids is that they seem to do much better in town than they do on the open road. Example - Ford’s new “small” SUV the Escape gets between 35 & 40 in the city and 29 to 31 on the highway. While those numbers are still pretty good, even for a small SUV. But the numbers are totally inverted compared to what most would expect from a regular gas or diesel burning vehicle. Also remember the Escape is a heavy vehicle at 3800 lbs.

If you want more on the Escape Hybrid, you’ll find it in Car & Driver’s Aug 04 issue.

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[Ken G]

Just a speculation, but I would have thought that the more efficient a vehicle the more the actual consumption varies with the driver, the terrain and so on. My 1925 Rover used to consume the same in town, country, towing or whatever (about 12 miles per US gallon). My 1996 BMW 318ti varies between high 20s per gallon in town and 40 mpg on long trips. I suspect the variation on say a Prius would probably be greater still. It might be difficult to put a figure to it, and the "standard test" that is supposed to deliver a representative figure with conventional vehicles might give unrepresentative numbers with hybrids. Does anyone have real information?

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

 

[78Z]

The truck isn't really a hybrid in the truest sense. It doesn't have another (ie electric) motor driving the wheels but instead a bunch of features to optimize the mileage of the gas engine - engine idle shutdown and accessories driven by battery not engine/alternator.

This link explains it really well - https://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05gmhybrid.htm

 

[MattP]

I didn't know about it not being a "true" hybrid, but at least it is using technology to improve economy.

As for alternate sustainable fuels, I am all for them. My personal favorite is Bio-diesel. But I really don't see hybrids getting in the way of that, but rather being a transition while they develop infrastructure to support themselves. Hydrogen, for instance, has a long way to go in this respect. And will most likely need many of the technologies developed for hybrids as it just isn't possible to carry enough around to go very far.

 

[aeronca65t]

Matt:

I am also interested and excited about bio-diesel. We saw some for sale near Ocean City (MD) while I was on vacation. One of our nieces was with us, so she went to that station with her diesel-Passat and filled up. We were kind of hoping that the car would emanate a "french-fry" smell, but no such luck! Anyway, it ran fine.

The main question about bio-diesel at the moment is the large amount of petro-based fertilizer needed to grow the bio-source (corn). I hope they can work that part out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

By the way: Speed TV (cable TV channel) just did a show on several mini-Euro diesels (SEAT, VW Polo And Ford Fiesta). I would enjoy having one of those for commuting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]

By the way: Speed TV (cable TV channel) just did a show on several mini-Euro diesels (SEAT, VW Polo And Ford Fiesta). I would enjoy having one of those for commuting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that show – it’s a program called “5th gear” that comes out of the UK and it airs every Monday on Speed TV. While little of it is even remotely applicable to the North American viewers. It is interesting to see a program from across the pond to get another perspective and see vehicles that we’ll never see over here.

While the guy doing the review didn’t like the car – the program has a short little bit on the MG TF and how it was an improvement over the older MG T.
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[sammyb]

You all will also be interested to know that marketing research on ownership of the first two years of hybrid models from Toyota and Honda (Prius and Insight) show hybrids are twice as likely to have engine-related problems (and therefore spend twice as much time in the shop) as gas-powered vehicles from the same manufacturers.

Just imagine what will happen when Chevy gets into this. My 2002 Corvette has a frigging small-block, and it's in the shop today for the 15th time since I got it new -- it has just 13,200 miles on it.

 

[MattP]

All new technologies are buggy at first. Plus, it has to be hard on the ICE components of hybrids constanly being shut off and started again. I think they need to concentrate a bit more on lubricants and so forth to help sort these problems better.

As for your Corvette, I have no idea. ;-)

 

[Bugeye58]

But Sam, It's the new generation small block! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jeff

 

[racing girl]

I don't know why the North American market has never been able to make fuel efficient engines, I don't think it's just the attitude of the buyer liking the burble of a big V8, or the relatively cheap price of gas in this country. The technology exists to easily get 40+ mpg out of a standard gasoline engine, but instead, they're developing brand new vehicles with supposedly "fuel efficient" technology. Heck, my G15 will get 47 (UK) mpg on a run, and my father in laws Skoda diesel regularly get 60-65 (UK) mpg on the freeway. It's not difficult, and it's certainly not rocket science - so why, instead, do they insist on re-inventing the wheel?

RG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

 

[catfood]

Here, here RG. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

My Renault Laguna Diesel produces 150 horses and comfortably gets in the high forties (typically 48-49 mpg -british g's that is) doing 80mph (sorry 70 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)on the motorway. The only problem I notice is that the mpg falls off by 10-15% when the temperatures drop below 5 or 6 degrees.

My father-in-laws 3 series beemer regularly gets over 50 mpg (a slightly smaller car than the renault) so it would seem the the US idea of economical is slightly out of kilter with that of Europe!

So why no diesel cars over there?

 

[aeronca65t]

So why no diesel cars over there?

Steve:

Part of the reason is that diesel fuel has not been that much cheaper for us than gasoline. In the recent past, it's even been a bit more expensive. The slight savings in fuel consumption in diesels is worthwhile for fleet operators, but not passenger cars (especially when balanced against percieved negatives such as slow warm-up, low-power, noise and smokey exhaust).

There is also a slightly bad attitude about diesel cars in the North America because of the lingering memory of General Motors diesels built in response to the first OPEC oil embargo. Those engines (mostly in Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs) had a history of service problems. During that same era, VW sold some excellent diesel Golfs (we called them "Rabbits"), but most diesels were considered too expensive (M-B) or too troublesome (GM). Diesel VWs are starting to slowly catch on again in the US, but not like in Europe.

One of the other problems with North American diesels is the actual fuel. Our diesel fuel comes mostly from high-sulfer ("sour") crude oil (I think, from Venezula). European diesel fuel is sourced from low-sulfer ("light and sweet") crude from the Middle-East. It's easier to reduce smoke and emissions with the fuel you use, so conumers find them more acceptable.

I assume the 3-Series BMW you mention is a diesel. The 3-Series is not available in the US with a diesel engine.

Personally, I look forward to more small diesels in North America...I'm a big fan of them.

I also agree with RG about exisiting technology. A few years ago, I had a 3-cylinder Suzuki car that returned over 50 mpg on the highway. It was a good little car. Amazingly, the folks who made fun of that car the most drove gas-guzzlers. I thought "they doth protest too much".

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]

One of the other problems with North American diesels is the actual fuel. Our diesel fuel comes mostly from high-sulfer ("sour") crude oil (I think, from Venezula). European diesel fuel is sourced from low-sulfer ("light and sweet") crude from the Middle-East. It's easier to reduce smoke and emissions with the fuel you use, so conumers find them more acceptable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point! Helping to fuel (pardon the pun) the problem here in the US is that our refineries are running at almost 100% capacity to meet our current fuel demands. I can’t see them increasing diesel production by very much. Also with no new refineries being built here in the last thirty something years and no sign of the greenies ever allowing anymore to be built anytime soon – I suspect we’ll never see Diesels having the kind of impact here that they have overseas.

 

[Mark Jones]

"So why no diesel cars over there?"

In Atlantic Canada diesel cars are much more common than they are in Eastern USA. I just came back from a week-long trip to New England and New York and only saw one other diesel VW (I drive a 94 Golf). Probably part of the reason diesels are fairly common here is that diesel is 10-15 cents/L cheaper than regular gas (0.30$/gal).

On my 1800 mile journey I average 47 mpg. Not bad for an eleven year old car with 200,000 miles on it, although my 84 Jetta would deliver over 60 mpg routinely.

Hybrids are a good idea but let's stick diesel engines in them, otherwise why bother; a diesel car can get as good a fuel milage as a gas/electric hybrid ,and with the new direct injected technology, very low emissions from a diesel engine.

 

[Webb Sledge]

I don't think I'm the only one, but if all vehicles do become hybrids and/or alternate power (besides petrol), and they outlaw gas cars, I will be a very unhappy camper. No more British cars, no more roaring V8s, no more burbling straight 6s, and basically everything I love will be gone. What's the point of owning a car that just kind of buzzes along? I like to have a humongous noise as I drive.