Why do people cheap out and skip the cheap stuff?

[Stewart]

As I dig deeper into the engine of the 73 I have to wonder what the heck are people thinking? Finally confirmed the engine has been rebuilt at some point in it's somewhat recent past. Crank is marked at 10 over rods have been off and everything was super clean inside. However every locktab on this engine was original and was either broken or never bent back.

I dont think its cost me more that 20 bucks to replace all of the lock tabs. Pretty cheap considering how much even a on the cheap rebuild costs. Some times I just dont get it.

 

[rick_ingram]

Penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[19_again]

Sounds like the kind of "saver" that will drive across town and sit in line for 20 minutes to save ten cents on a gallon of gas.

 

[kennypinkerton]

Yup... and I'm sure some "on-their-own" DIY mechanics would overlook something like that, just because they don't know what they are for.

 

[DrEntropy]

...or some shop wrench lost th' draw and didn't care about whether he did a proper job or not. Disrespect. "It's a sh**box little car, Who cares." Seen it a million times.

See my "Prejudice" diatribe in the "Articles" section. :wink:

 

[billspohn]

Actually, using relatively soft metal lock tabs is considered a bad thing because it gives you unreliable torque readings - you think you hit it (and probably did, momentarily) but then the lock tab crushes and the bolt tension varies.

It was acceptable old tech but modern chemical thread lockers are preferable today.

I never build race engines using lock tabs - a drop of Loctite will do the job more reliably. In fact on modern engines like the 3.4 GM I built awhile ago (well, sort of modern) ther are no lockwashers or lock tabs - all chemical.

I agree though - reusing them is like sticking in a 'good used' muffler.

 

[ronzet]

Bill,

re: Using Loctite..

If you need to disassemble -- Any problems or does it simply break loose with a few ft/pds ??

 

[bill_young]

Different Bill but some information on Loctite. You need to select the best product for the job. It comes in different formulas for different applications. For most automotive work I usually use a medium strength locker such as the 243 type. This is usually a blue color. The higher strength stuff is colored red. As you can see from their website there are lots of choices available depending on application and need for sealing ability. Loctite is much like a mechanical lock washer, just need a few pounds of torque to break it loose in the medium strength, but keeps fasteners from vibrating and loosening.
https://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/hen...rand=0000000389

 

[DrEntropy]

Thanks, Bill!

I keep 242 (blue, medium strength) and 271 (red, high strength) here inna beer locker. :wink:

The GREEN stuff is wicked, BTW. Only for things you NEVER want to disassemble again.

 

[ronzet]

Well, well... There is always somethin' to learn...

When I rebuilt my A I used new flanges...

Now that my B will soon be under the knife... I will re-assemble using Loctite...

Thanks guys...

 

[billspohn]

Yup, Bill had it right.

The blue holds well but you can break it loose with a good wrench. That is what is usually used on engines.

Red is used for things that you won't have to disassemble any time soon and it takes some heat to break the bond. Which can be a bit of a bear if the part that is glued happens to be on an engine that acts as a huge heat sink - you aren't going to get it hot enough without major ptoblems.

Green is for things you have already assembled - it wicks into joints and can be pretty handy as it works amazingly well on oily threads.

 

[DrEntropy]

Green is for things you have already assembled - it wicks into joints and can be pretty handy as it works amazingly well on oily threads.

My partner once used it on a Weber'd up 289 Cobra... idle stop screws. They kept dancin' out of adjustment. Not after THAT! But it was a real trial to get 'em "unstuck".
Better off snipin' a bottle o' mom's nail polish.

 

[startech47]

Brown or Purple is for #4 fasteners and smaller.

 

[DrEntropy]

MUCH too late. That's NOW in th' records. :smirk:

 

[startech47]

Use Vibra-Lock to lock screws that need adjusting once in a while.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I don't use locktabs either, single fastner locktabs are a joke, I think someone at MG was sleeping with someone at the locktab plant. Give me loctite over a cheesy tab washer anyday. There is defintely room to improve on how the factory did it.

 

[ronzet]

Sooo Hap,

How do you REALLY feel about lock-tabs??

 

[billspohn]

I don't use locktabs either, single fastner locktabs are a joke, I think someone at MG was sleeping with someone at the locktab plant.

Hap, at least it was better than the way Jaguar did it. They used castellated nuts with split pins on the con rods. But they used a size of split pin that is uncommon and that is now hard to find. Most engine rebuilders don't know that the pins are anything special so they use commonly available North American standard pins. Only problem is that these oins do not fit as snugly and are therefor able to move and after many engine revolutions, wear through, dropping bits of split pin into the sump.

I have seen a Jaguar oil pump that was cracked in half because the tail of a split pin had gone through the oil pickup screen and got caught between the wall and rotor of the pump.

I always replaced the castellated nuts with grade 8 normal ones just so anyone else that had to rebuild the engine in the future couldn't make that mistake.

When I rebuild my race motor there isn't a lock tab or washer on it, just Loctite (on the DOHC MG engine there isn't a factory gasket, either - just a modified big bore pushrod head gasket, an oil pump gasket and a couple of after market rubber side cover gaskets, and about a half tube of silicon applied properly so it doesn't foul the oil galleries).