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TR2/3/3A tr3 lifter noise

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sp53

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Well I am starting to get the bugs out of this tr3 project and I am struggling with what sounds like a lifter. The noise is not extreme only irritating and un- perfect. The engine performs better than I thought it would. Anyway I had the lifters and the tappet ends machined, so I do not think the noise is a dishing problem. I used old push rods and perhaps one of those is egged shaped on an end. I cannot seem to isolate the exact lifter. I tried a stethoscope (hp) and a rubber hose, but still no joy. Perhaps the noise is something else. It sounds clackie though, so I do not think it is the crank trust washers. It sounds like a mild lifter. Any ideas on how to isolate are very welcome.
Steve
 
Did you check the rockers & their shaft for wear?

A bad small end bushing (in the connecting rod) can also sound like a bad lifter.

You might try temporarily setting the valve lash to a "tight" .008" (meaning it takes significant force to insert/remove a .008" feeler) and see if that changes the noise. If it makes no appreciable change, then IMO it's something else.
 
I've seen a lot of that over the decades on solid-lifter units.
How good are the tips of your rockers? Usually I see a wear pattern from the valve stem, and there is no way to do a "normal" adjustment and get them quiet.
Find a .002 or .003" feeler gauge you can live without. Start it with rocker cover off, and while running, slip it in between the rocker tip and the stem. If you've got an issue, the one with the problem will suddenly get real quiet. In the past, for folks with no money to spend, I've taken the shaft assembly off, clamped up the one rocker (or two, or three) and carefully filed them off, holding the curvature and level to the shaft (not hard to do with a straightedge and looking). Not recommended, but it worked for a long time.
Another is to use thumb and one finger, hold the joint of pushrod and rocker, squeeze while running to take slop out. Usually if your hearing is still okay you can hear a change when you find the one off. Worn rocker pivots and shafts.....what model and engine...mechanical fuel pump?
 
if you machined the lifters you probably machined the hardened face off and they will probably not last very long

Hondo
 
if you machined the lifters you probably machined the hardened face off and they will probably not last very long

Hondo
 
I remember in high school we had that tool with the screwdriver and wrench in one. The trick was to start the car and not have the oil everywhere and get the wrench in the game. If the car ran ok and you could keep the idle down it was not too bad. You would hold the tool down on the adjuster and it would shake the wrench and the screwdriver would pop off. I put new bushing and pins in and I think they are solid. I am leaning towards a lifter and trying to figure out a way to isolate. Both you guys always have great advice. I like the feeler gauge idea DOT, but I do not want to make a mess. This is my new baby. I never have run a tr3 with the cover off, so maybe it can handle the oil volume without making a mess. I just do not know. Perhaps I will toy with Randall’s ideas and maybe do one piston at a time with a tight 8 or just run them all. Again thanks guys
steve
 

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Hi Steve,

There is a tool called the "click adjust" that can handle worn rocker tips. Basically it is a gauge that tells you how many turns of the adjuster screw gets the desired clearance. But the other methods mentioned work just fine without buying a new, fairly expensive tool.

Running the engine without the rocker cover doesn't make a huge mess.

-Darrell
 
Darrell_Walker said:
Running the engine without the rocker cover doesn't make a huge mess.
Click to expand...
:iagree:
Provided of course you haven't installed the aftermarket oil feed to the rocker shaft!

I actually make starting it with the cover off part of my routine maintenance, to be sure all the rockers are still getting oil. Hasn't been a problem for me, but I've seen several other engines where the shaft got clogged with sludge.
 
I'm trying to remember my old shop class techniques...

I think I remember that if you pull the plug wire on the cylinder with a bad rod bearing, the knock will change or go away??

To isolate a lifter I've always idled the engine and then pushed on the rod side of the rocker to take up the slack. When you push on the one with the bad lifter, the knock will stop. Of course the cover is off for this one...

John
 
Well I found IT, number 3 intake. I just took my time and did one piston a day @ tight 8 to 6. I figure doing one piston at time, I could isolate the valve better. If I ran them all at .008 and it got quite, I would know it was a valve at least, but which one. So I kinda used a compilation of DOT and Randall’s advice. It is kinda funny because it was the last one I did, so 1 out of 8 are my odds, not good. In fact, I figured I would find it at 50/50. My son stopped over and I told him what I was doing and, he just said “huh” and I said, it will probably be the last one, and by that time, I was thinking that Randall is probably correct, and it is something ELSE. But elation, it was not. So what is next? Perhaps I could get some more advice. The shaft is new, and the rockers are re-bushed, and the lifters are resurfaced. I guess I could swap out the bush rod easy enough. I could unscrew and replace the adjusting end. Or set the one valve tighter which does not make me warm fuzzy. So ideas please.
steve
 
Have you looked at the end of the rocker that contacts the valve? If it has a ridge (and if you can feel it, it's .002") you'll need to surface that end.
 
Hi TOC yes what else could it be. Anyway I went out and loosened up the adjuster thinking I could pull the tapit over and roll it up to have a better look, but there is not enough room. The ball does not back off enough. I had the ends of the tapits resurfaced at specialty cam shop, but who knows, so I do not know. I took a small feeler gauge and gently tried to feel a ridge, but cannot be certain. I suppose the correct approach is to remove the rocker and replace and repair. Right now I am leaning toward setting it at .008 until I get some more miles on it. I am getting lazy. What do you think? Will a .008 setting on a known clakie lifter be a potential valve problem?
 
Just a thought ,but did you measure clearance with a dial indicator?You get a more accurate measurement,which shouldnt change if you rotate pushrood,and if it indicates looser than feeler gauge somethings worn.
Tom
 
We used to have to adjust old Ford Y-blocks, Chrysler slant-6's, and GM inline sixes with a dial indicator, but, I don't know if you have one. I used a magnetic mount to the head, hold the adjuster down towards the lifter to keep slack out, set the indicator dial, roll until the pushrod just gets tight as far as rotation, that's your lash, read right out on the dial. Tappet surfacing is at the other end....if the rockers were re-bushed, a good shop should have checked the tips.

It's harder to explain than it is to do.
 
sp53 said:
Right now I am leaning toward setting it at .008 until I get some more miles on it. I am getting lazy. What do you think? Will a .008 setting on a known clakie lifter be a potential valve problem?
Click to expand...

Running .008 on a good lifter should not cause a problem. The problem is that you don't know why the lifter started making noise. Next I would change the oil and look for metalic flakes...telling you something is grinding at the lifter/cam contact. If the oil looks good, the tighter setting can buy some time till you figure it out.

Have you talked to the shop that did the work?

John
 
Another option : continue to set it at .010" and don't worry about the noise. I've got one that is audibly louder than the others, and it doesn't seem to be causing any problems.
 
I had local company, Delta Camshaft, reface the tappets probably 8 years ago and I put it together. It has 200 miles on it. I hear you Randall a little loose is ok. I do not have a dial indicator, but that sounds like a more refined way to do the adjusting. Perhaps I will pull the rockers off and replace the push rod and get a better look at the tip. This thing has had 5 oil changes in 200 miles that should be enough, maybe.
 
The picture is wrong, but Enco currently has a mag base, dial indicator with .001" resolution and a point set on sale for $25:
https://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=625-1300
Click on the "Master Catalog Page 392" link, and scroll down to see the actual kit on the bottom left.

I've had a similar kit from Enco for many years now, and it still works well enough. Not the same quality as a Starrett or Mitutoyo, but good enough. Handy thing to have around, IMO. Here's a shot of mine, checking front hub runout:
DSCF0001_crop.jpg
 
I am in shock. I went out and pulled the rocker shaft off to have a better look and one of the push rods came up with it. The lifter has come right up to the top and will not go back down. My guess is the lifter is broken and jammed. I do not believe this, it is surreal.A new thread is perhaps in order. I am not sure what to do. I really do not what to pull the head. Part of me wants to smack it with a hammer thinking it is just stuck in the tube, but the ball on the end had a gritty build up and was darker.


Steve
 

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