General TR no title or registration?

[NutmegCT]

If you're interested in a local car for sale, you go to look and still feel positive ... but the seller says "the title is missing" and the car's not currently registered ... you figure the seller can't prove ownership, and thus the car can't be registered through DMV even if you fork over cash to the seller and get a signed BOS.

Choices:

1. run away!

2. advise the seller you're interested in the car, but he/she needs to register it first

#2 would be my choice, but how can the seller ever register it?

Note this isn't Triumph specific (tho' it might be ...)

Thanks.
Tom M.

 

[HealeyRick]

Well, at least in the Nutmeg State, you don't need a title for a vehicle over 20 model years old: https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=816&q=244698 I don't believe you need a prior registration, just a bill of sale. Unless there's a report of a stolen vehicle, you're probably going to be ok.

Edit: Oops, spoke too soon, here's from the DMV:

I have purchased an older vehicle in Connecticut, but the seller does not have a title. He says that the vehicle does not require a title. How do I register the vehicle?
The State of Connecticut no longer requires title certificates for vehicles that are older than 20 model years. In order for you to register the vehicle, you must have a Supplemental Assignment of Ownership (form Q-1) and a copy of the last registration certificate. You must show continuity of ownership from the last registered owner to you. https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=801&q=244524

 

[NutmegCT]

Thanks Rick. I knew about the 20 year cutoff for title, but it still looks like it's up to the seller to prove ownership. Certainly makes legal sense anyway. Funny, but I often run in to sellers who say a car is 20+ years old, "so it won't be a problem to register with a BOS".

Won't be a problem is right - but only if there's a way to prove continuity of ownership. If the seller says "Selling for a friend" or "never drove it so never registered it" won't work.

(Now you know why we're called Nutmeggers!)

 

[Got_All_4]

Check your state laws first before purchasing because your on the hook for everything. Here in Ohio it is illegal to knowingly buy, sell, or trade a car without a title.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Whereas in Arizona one can obtain a bonded title - basically you buy a bond for the value of the car and for some period of years maintain that bond. Its purpose, I believe, is to protect the state should the car later prove to be stolen or otherwise have a claim on it.

Not cheap as the bond is based on the value of the car and the state must agree (and will want proof) that the value stated is high enough.

 

[TR3TR6]

This was on the news locally a couple of weeks ago. A guy here bought a car from a car dealer in Texas 6 years ago. This year when he went to get his tag and register it, the numbers didn't match. It turned out that the car was stolen in New York, had a fake title made on it and purchased by the dealer in Texas. The police took his car and he's out of the car and his money. It makes you wonder how close some of the states really check titles.

 

[John_Progess]

Here in Utah, an Officer comes over to inspect the car and call in the Vin to check if it is stolen. If everything is OK you will receive a new title for $10! I have done this three times for old British car projects and no problems. The Officer does look at you kind of funny if you hand him the Vin plate because it is not firmly riveted to the car as he is used to seeing.

John

 

[TR3driver]

Wow, I'm surprised it's so tough in other states. With my TR3 here in CA, I didn't even show them the bill of sale (although I had one), let alone any kind of proof of continuity of ownership. They had me fill out a "statement of facts" saying the car had been in my possession for whatever length of time it was (2 years?), ran the numbers against the hot cars database, and issued a new title. I did eventually come up with an old registration, but that was only so I could keep the old CA black license plates (otherwise I would have had to buy new plates for it).

With Stag #2, they inspected and decided that the paperwork I had did not go with the car! VIN plate was obviously tampered with before I got the car; and even though the state of OK accepted it, CA would not. So again they ran it against the hot cars database, but this time issued me a new VIN number as well as a new title.

And I was under the impression that all states had a process whereby a collection of old car parts (which obviously have no title) can be turned back into a "car" with a title. Dad's TR3A has been through that process twice in IN; which is why it bears only a "MVINxxxx" commission number (we never did know the original numbers). But likely they've cracked down on that, to avoid having "cars" built from stolen parts.

 

[CJD]

You assume a lot of risk with a non-titled car. Retitling is not a problem in any state I have lived in (12 total), but if it does turn up stolen, you can lose your entire investment. So, it's up to you if you think it's worth the risk.

Last year I walked away from an XKE for $5k, because it had been towed and repossessed without a title. If you have tracked the price of XKE's lately, you know that was less than 1/5 the going rate...but it was just not worth the high risk it entailed. If the tow company did not stick to the letter of the law, it would revert to the PO.

Now...the flip side is that if you plan to part it out...the risk miraculously disappears!

 

[Rut]

Alabama does not issue titles on cars older than 1976 and even when presented with one they don't want it. Sometimes you need a bill of sale, other times you just need the previous owners information! Once the car is ready for a tag you drop by the county office and they look at the car, ask you for the vin number and verify it. You can use a vin number, engine number, body number, commission number, etc. as long as there's something attached to the car.
When I was researching various LBCs in Alabama all it took was an email to the right person and he sent me a list of every LBC in Alabama that I requested...some were titled with commission numbers, vin numbers, engine numbers, name of the car, body numbers, etc.
Rut

 

[martx-5]

In New York, cars 1972 and earlier do not have any titles. They have what are called transferable registrations. It is in two parts. The transferable portion proves ownership, and is used to sell or give ownership to another person. The registration portion allows the vehicle to be operated on a public road. The registration portion is stuck on the windscreen. Each time the car comes up for re-registration, both sections of the registration are handed out.

 

[NutmegCT]

Thanks gentlemen. Connecticut doesn't issue (or transfer) titles on vehicles over 20 year old.

It seems anyone can "sell" a car, and the buyer can forget to ask for proof the seller actually owns it. Sounds like the online "rent this condo in Bermuda" scams, where you see a nice photo of a condo, send your money - then arrive and discover the person placing the online ad has no connection with the condo!

Old stock market saying: "He that sells what isn't his'n, often ends up going to prison."

Anyway, I can't see buying a car unless the seller can prove ownership. If the car was never registered in the name of the seller, then it's Katy bar the door, at least in Connecticut.

Tom M.

 

[tomshobby]

Some years ago I worked for a car dealer. It was a routine to have a local police officer do a vin check if there was no title. That same simple check saved me from buying a TR4 from California.

 

[STaylor4]

Ran into a related issue in Missouri. I have a TR6 I bought new in 1974. Last time it was registered was 1990 in California. I've had the car in 'rolling storage' since then and never bothered to keep the registration up. Now I want to get her back on the road (legally) so I called California and asked for a replacement title (the title has been lost). They explained they purge stale registrations, so there is no title available (and no record of the car held by them). Missouri DMV told me I need a circuit judge to provide a declaratory judgement that the car in fact belongs to me. Need an attorney for that. I have the old bill of sale, bill of lading (it was imported to me from England), and my last registration certificate from California. My attorney has filed these documents with the court and a hearing will be held July 22, 2016. Ka-ching ka-ching. Owning this TR6 has always been an adventure.

 

[toysrrus]

Hi folks,

i recently bought a TR6 from a gent in Florida. I have a Title, BOS etc. from seller in the PO Owners name. I think it'll be OK here in SC but I'll know for sure tomorrow.

im just curious to see if anyone can tell me "What year it is"? The year is on the title but I'm not all that familiar with the VIN #s. The VIN is: "CF7454U". I'm just curious to hear what year this VIN corresponds with relative to year built?

Thanx in advance,

Russ

 

[George_H]

https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/content--name-Triumph-TR6-Vehicle-Information

This should help. Looks like a 73

 

[toysrrus]

Thanx George,

it sure does! That makes me feel a whole lot better!

Appreciate te the quick reply.

Russ

 

[glemon]

I bought my TR250 without a title, the smooth talking eBay seller assuring me he would go through the process of getting me one. After a couple months of excuses and car not yet shipped (he told me he could set up cheap shipping too) I said screw it and set up my own shipping.

My state does bonded title, long story, but before they issue it they do a title search. The number showed up as registered in Alabama. I had restored the car before I got it registered and titled. For a couple days I thought I was royally screwed. State of Alabama came back with an email saying they would not issue a title on a car that old, and my state accepted it.

Would I buy a car without a title ever again? Yes I probably would, but only if highly rare and desirable with a serious discount for lack of title (although if they were too willing to do that it would probably raise my suspicions) and I would title it before I restored it. 5k e-type? If a series 1 I think I would probably pounce.

Oh lastly, would talk to the current owner about getting a title before selling, had a line on a Saab Sonett with no title, seller was telling me how easy it was to get a title in his neighboring state, I suggested he do that and I would buy it. The negotiations kind of broke down after that...

 

[pdplot]

A client of mine bought a '56 T-Bird from a newspaper ad. There was no title. He registered the car, put on 4 new tires and began to drive it. One day a guy came up to him on the street and asked him where he got the car. When the guy heard the story, he looked the car over and said "That's my T-Bird. It was stolen a couple of years before". At that point, the client called me. The general rule is a thief can pass no title. The guy was able to prove that the car was his and my client was S.O.L. But - he was able to recover the cost of the tires that improved the value of the car.
Question - what if he had bought the car from a dealer? Hmmn? Same result? How about buying a suit from a store that turned out to be part of a stolen shipment? Same result?

 

[toysrrus]

Hi folks,

I got my title work completed on my '73 TR6.

The eBay seller wasn't 100% honest. He said he had a clear title in his name. I asked him to send me a pic of the title but that didn't happen. The title was from another state & different person!!layful: It was signed by PO so all went OK.

Expecting delv on Sat - Monday?

Russ