TR6 Borg & Beck or LUK clutch kit for the '74 TR6

[hondo402000]

I have been searching the net trying to cross reference pressure plates, wonder if its worth trying to compare other clutches and adapt them to a TR6 flywheel. ooo say a toyota supra 2.5 l engine. seems a competent maching shop could center the PP and friction plate drill and tap the holes

thoughts

Hondo

 

[TR3driver]

but reinforce the clutch fork to the shaft with an additional bolt, a modification that has been done by at least several on this board.

And that I definitely recommend to all! Although no doubt the extra-heavy clutch aggravates the problem, the taper pin can break even with the factory clutch (mine broke years ago, while I was still running the stock TR3A clutch).

Given what a royal pain it is to change the taper pin; I can't see any reason not to install the reinforcement any time you have the gearbox out. No sense waiting for it to break.

Nelson wrote up an excellent article, including the engineering reason the taper pin fails (basically because the hole in the fork is not tapered to match the pin) and several valid solutions:
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ClutchShaft/ClutchShaft.htm

Personally I prefer the 1/4" bolt, as it is easy, requires no unusual tools (a 1/4" drill & hacksaw will do) and seems entirely adequate.

 

[TR3driver]

wonder if its worth trying to compare other clutches and adapt them to a TR6 flywheel. ooo say a toyota supra 2.5 l engine. seems a competent maching shop could center the PP and friction plate drill and tap the holes

thoughts

Why stop at the clutch? Why not drop the entire driveline in? You could even get some badges made up that say Toyumph !

 

[hondo402000]

after doing some searching Sachs Pressure plate numbers on some websites (w0133-1612607 and W0133-1660065 that fit 2.5 l TR6 the same number fits 1990 900 saab, 1963 Volvo P1800 and since that engine was a 1.8 L B18 engine I know for a fact its the same engine for 122s, 544, from 61-68. all are 215 mm OD. but cannnot get the ID and no one post the force in pound required to release the clutch.

its hard to belive all those different HP and torque rating engines use the same pressure plate I can see how the friction plate would be different due to the number of splines on the input shaft

Hondo

 

[hondo402000]

so just because the same pressure plate also fits a saab,,,, does it make our triumphs a Saaumph or a triumolvo

dont think so

 

[Brosky]

No, but they can be Trabs and Trolvos.

 

[Opa]

I know we all like pics,so I dug out the last B+B disc and presure plate that I removed in about Feb of 2002.This is clutch #5 from 1990-2002 with a little over 30,000 miles driven collectively.This last unit was correctly located as I had learned about the dowel locations by this time. This unit was removed because it chattered so bad on engagement in first and reverse,especially when hot that it was almost impossible to drive without popping the clutch at take-off.Btw I am not trying to convince anybody as to what clutch to buy,just relating my experiances.
Pic #1 B+B AP Approved Disc made in England. note wear pattern from outer edge to about centre of rivets,but no further,I have no answer for that one. Springs at 1-3-5 o'clock position are loose in there holders and can be freely turned. Others are tight.

 

[Opa]

for some reason I could only post one pic at a time anyway this is the kit and part number that is currently installed and has about 50,000 miles on it.

 

[Opa]

somethings wrong with my silver membership? used to be able to add multiple pics......ok here's a shot of the B+B pressure plate showing finger wear.This I believe is the cranked finger style that Randall reffered to. This plate has about 8000 miles on it as did the disc.

 

[TR3driver]

The finger wear is not the fault of the pressure plate, but rather the throw-out bearing and/or missing spring from the clutch slave cylinder. The original bearing is a special free-turning design that should always spin with the pressure plate, even when the clutch is released. The spring inside the slave cylinder should supply enough force to keep it spinning.

But practically all of the 'uprated' bearings (plus some defective replacement bearings that were on the market a few years back) require more force to turn, and so may slip against the pressure plate fingers when the clutch is released. In some cases, this produces a hideous noise, but others are totally silent.

Joachim Gunst actually supplies an extra spring with his release bearing kit to hook to the clutch lever and provide more force. But apparently there are some kits sold under his name (without his permission) that do not include the spring.

 

[kodanja]

Heres my Old B & B clutch

never again, now I have the Volvo clutch'

btw: Ive got the Ford Type 9 5sp.

 

[Opa]

your right Randall,I turfed the spring from the slave many, years ago and went with an adjustable rod and a pull back spring.I believe I did that after several T/O bearing failures. However the wear you see is miniscule,not as bad as it looks in the pic. I'll try and mic it just for interest sake.It was the disc that went haywire.The earlier plates showed about ten times the wear in less mileage due to the oscillation of the T/O bearing.

 

[RonMacPherson]

If you get the chance to explore clutches in depth. See what you find for Ford Probes..

Decades ago, I took my pieces into Centerforce, when they were still in Midway City, California, before Bill Hays son-in-law took it to Arizona... Bill gave me pieces that he said fit a Ford Probe, this was in 87.. I wrote the numbers down, but they have gotten misplaced(read lost) over the years.

The pressue plate and disc lasted through three cars(and still is waiting to go into my next project car... The pressure plate applied pressure was stronger than factory, but the pedal effort was lighter than factory with identical hydraulics. And it did NOT slip or chatter.

 

[71MKIV]

I had a BB clutch do the same thing as Kodanja.

downshifted to maintain speed down a hill and a large kablam and the engine was no longer connected to the trans.

 

[Brosky]

The spring on the Gunst makes no difference at all with the B&B kit that most of the suppliers sell today. When I bought mine, the TRF catalog and web site said that the Gunst would work with the B&B or the Sachs.

Look at the pictures on my link below and tell me how well three (yes 3) of them worked. Yes, I had dowels in and my original clutch lasted 54,000 miles, so we know how to drive the car. And my wife learned to drive a standard shift on the original clutch. The only reason that it was replaced is because I had an overdrive unit installed by Quantum, so it was done right at his shop.

Clutch Installation

Now, will it work with another brand of pressure plate? Some here have used it and it is fine, so I guess it does. What torqued me off at Gunst (and I still have his emails) is that he blamed TRF and they blamed him, so I got nothing but one replacement bearing out of them and no labor reimbursement whatsoever.

 

[TR3driver]

and my original clutch lasted 54,000 miles,

Which of course brings us full circle, back to my first suggestion of using original components rather than trying to "improve" things by using the wrong parts.

 

[hondo402000]

well last time I looked there were no Triumph Dealers to run down to and by OEM parts. Everthing is aftermarket parts, or abc sold out to xyz and makes your part now but its not exactly the same because its made in China, India, Korea, bla bla bla

 

[hondo402000]

TDSkip
I checked out BPNW Sachs kit. looks like a good move, Why do they say B&B quit makeing clutches in 2005 but some are still selling them under the B&B name.. I would probably go that route too but not yet, I did purchase the alloy valve stem caps and keepers!

 

[Brosky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Which of course brings us full circle, back to my first suggestion of using original components rather than trying to "improve" things by using the wrong parts.[/QUOTE]

Which I agreed with, but I "assumed" that I was buying a good OEM new replacement clutch from TRF when this all started. remember that I said I had never seen the Clutch article that was written many years ago. I was just replacing the clutch as good policy when doing the overdrive installation.

But I will take full blame for trying to improve to the Gunst. That is why I do my best to make sure no one else makes that same mistake.