Wire wheels vs. steel - pros/cons?

[jjbunn]

What are the pros and cons of wire wheels on, say, an XKE? They look good, but are they a pain to keep adjusted and clean?

Thanks!

 

[DrEntropy]

I'm havin' a difficult time trying to remember a Jag E-Type <span style="font-style: italic">without</span> wire wheels.

If they're in good shape, just keeping them clean is good enough in most cases. Tho THAT gets to be a pain, too. If they need tuning/reconditioning there aren't many who do it, a replacement may be more cost effective. Dayton are the only outfit I can recall who're making a proper one currently.

Wires are heavy compared to steel or alloy, more unsprung weight.

 

[jjbunn]

This XKE I'm hoping to take a look at at the weekend has what appear to be steel wheels:

 

[DrEntropy]

Yup. They're standard. I forgot about the "tall" E-Types. :shocked:

 

[Grantura_MKI]

I do not like this vehicle for a few reasons. First, it is a 2+2, second it is fitted with steel wheels, third, it has those after market bumper strips down the side...these are fitted via "pop rivets" a pain to fill the holes. Love the euro trash side mirror. Almost forgot the Amco bar at the front.
Sorry, just my 2 cents.

 

[jjbunn]

I do not like this vehicle for a few reasons. First, it is a 2+2, second it is fitted with steel wheels, third, it has those after market bumper strips down the side...these are fitted via "pop rivets" a pain to fill the holes. Love the euro trash side mirror. Almost forgot the Amco bar at the front.
Sorry, just my 2 cents.

That's fine ... good to get another perspective.

I like the shape of the 2+2. The wheels are OK, but perhaps not as attractive as wires. Yes, that side mirror would have to go!

What is the Amco bar you're referring to?

 

[Andy Blackley]

Steel wheels were optional on Series 2 E-types, and standard on the Series 3. The hubcap motif on the S2 was similar that found on the horn button, while the later cars used the gold Cats Head found on the seventies sedans.

40+ year old steel wheels are likely to be far more stable than the original wire wheels of the same age. Group 44, Gran Turismo and other race teams never used wire wheels because they were not strong enough, and steel wheels and alloys gave better handling. Old, original equipment chrome wire wheels are very likely to need replacement, as the chrome is usually pitted, and they are a pain to get balanced and stay balanced. So if you buy a car with steelies you have the potential to pay less for the car, and have a safer wheels that feel better on the road, until such time as you have saved your pennies to convert to nice new wire wheels, such as Daytons.

Regarding the 2+2, my highly biased opinion is that this is the sleeper E-type par excellence. As a daily driver the S2 2+2 is much easier to live with, with improved cooling, brakes, and more interior space. The S2 had more rake in the windscreen, which makes the design more cohesive. Most of all, these are the "affordable" E-types. For those of us with E-type taste but unable or willing to drop $30-50K, and climbing, on a coupe (never mind the OTS)the 2+2 with a manual transmission gives the same driving experience as its more desirable sisters. Looking out of the windscreen and down the bonnet, the view is much the same!

 

[Andy Blackley]

The Amco bar is shown below. It was a popular add-on back in the day, made by Amco, who supplied all kinds of after market goodies.

It was supposed to protect the nose, and could do so from hits by kids on tricycles, but it also had the potential to do more damage in a bigger impact. If hit hard enough it could fold in on itself and pull the bumper mounts out of the bonnet on either side.

 

[jjbunn]

Andy - is your car for sale ?! lol (It looks brilliant.)

What's your opinion of the automatic box vs. the manual? Are the automatic transmissions reliable?

I must say I'm a little confused about the difference between an FHC and a 2+2, but I have a book on E-Types arriving from Amazon soon that will presumably enlighten me.

 

[Andy Blackley]

Andy - is your car for sale ?! lol (It looks brilliant.)

What's your opinion of the automatic box vs. the manual? Are the automatic transmissions reliable?

I must say I'm a little confused about the difference between an FHC and a 2+2, but I have a book on E-Types arriving from Amazon soon that will presumably enlighten me.

Julian: Its mine: a car I just bought! I like it too and I am not selling. Ever. At least thats what I told my wife. Its a nice, original car, a 99 point car in the local JCNA Drivers class, that I will not be afraid to use. They are out there.

The big difference is that the 2+2 is nine inches longer and 2 inches taller than the coupe. It has a back seat (hence the +2. Different monocoque body: different floor pans, sills, roof, etc, but same running gear. The extra length gave Jaguar the ability to install an automatic transmission that appealed to a different sort of driver. Jaguar NA even marketed the +2 as an "XKE Sedan".

I prefer a manual transmission to the automatic. Obviously, the manual is "sportier". It also gives the driver more control over power delivery. The "slush" box used is a Borg Warner Model 8, IIRC. My first Jag ever was a '67 2+2 autobox that I bought for a mere $900 in 1977. Ten years of Ohio salt had eaten the sills away, but from inside it looked like a million bucks. The BW box is OK, very much a 50s design, and even in perfect condition it shifts are somewhat delayed and occur with a definite clunk, and most of the ones you will find will probably need work. Parts and expertise are not getting any easier to find either, but chances are you can find some old timer who can fix one. The BW was used on some American off-brands such as Studebaker, so they are not "foreign".

The good news is that the extra room allows the all-syncho manual gearbox with overdrive to be installed. Or you can fit a T-5. Or if want a better automatic the GM tranny used in the later XJ sedans would work too. Many options there.

The 2+2 was very well received by the car testers and the public back in the late 60s, but later automotive scribblers and collectors have been less kind, saying that the stretch ruined the lines of the coupe. Maybe. Truly, the Series 1 Coupe is the Most Beautiful Car Ever. But, as an article in Classic Motorsports (March 2009) put it: All E-types are cool.

 

[jessebogan]

The auto box works pretty well in a V12. Still not MY preference, but not as much of a power drain as it is on the six cylinder cars. I work on one 2+2, a 70, six cylinder car with an auto, that was one owner until my customer bought it. The original owner obviously loved his car, and "tinkered" for it's whole life. The automatic in that car works really well, nice shifts, kickdown set up really well...They can be slapped into shape I guess, but it is still a little slow... Owner likes it though, and nice on the open road.

 

[jjbunn]

The one I'm hoping to look at this weekend is a 2+2 with the V12 engine, automatic transmission, 1971 model year. Apparently it needs a new master brake cylinder (provided) and the hoses and exhaust replacing (not sure what that means, exactly!). Supposedly no rust. I must say the sight of the V12's engine compartment looks daunting - it must take hours to do a valve adjustment :-O

 

[DrEntropy]

:lol:

And a collection of Jag shims!!!

 

[jjbunn]

I suppose the advantage with a V12 is that you don't notice if 50% of the cylinders aren't in tune

 

[Silverghost]

I like these steel wheels..... I think a set on my 56 MkI would be smashing!

Smashing to the checkbook at least.....1550"L" EACH! :shocked:

 

[jjbunn]

OUCH!!