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TR6 TR6 Head Removal Problems

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Scot1966

Scot1966

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I know this is similar to other topics on this forum, but I couldn't find this exact issue, only head studs that were stuck in the block. Anyway, This weekend was suppose to be my tear down the engine weekend, and re-gasket/seal everything. Well the head won't come off and it is because I can't get 4 head studs out. (They are outside the valve cover) They seem to be stuck in the head. 2 days of PB Blaster and heat. Not budging ! I am using the double nut method and the nuts keep turning. I don't like the thought of the rope deal....bending connecting rods. I may try heating the head area around the stud and using dry ice on the stud. I am also thinking of welding the nuts on the studs, but I am afraid of snapping the studs. Anyone have any other thoughts ?
Thanks, Scot
 
We removed the head on my '71 after a week of continuous daily soaking with penetrating oil and then finally rope in the cylinders and a chain hoist. It was hard but the head finally popped off. The rope did it. Don't forget these heads have been on there for over 40 years. I don't think you'll bend a con rod. I'm sure I didn't as the car is running fine over a year later. Please don't use a pry bar or large screwdriver as I've seen others do.
 
pdplot said:
We removed the head on my '71 after a week of continuous daily soaking with penetrating oil and then finally rope in the cylinders and a chain hoist.

Please don't use a pry bar or large screwdriver as I've seen others do.
Click to expand...

I will keep soaking it...I won't pry, the key here is to get the studs out and I'm sure the head will come off. I just don't know what else to try to get those things to move.

Thanks for the reply !
Scot
 
Have you tried just using the starter ? With the spark plugs in place and all the valves closed there may be enough compression to lift the head loose.
Then once you actually remove the head you can get the studs out with a quality made stud remover.
 
I just removed and replace the head on my '76 about two weeks ago. What worked for me to get the head moving off the block was PLASTIC shims that I bought at the lumber yard. They are used to shim a door, etc.
I did manage to find a small space between the head and block so in inserted the thinnest part of the shim in there and tapped it in. I kept inserting the shims around the bottom of the head until it finally was free of the block, then I lifted it off. Obviously, the plastic was softer than the steel so I had no damage. Keep your screw drivers away in the drawer!
The plastic shims worked for me.
 
poolboy said:
Have you tried just using the starter ? With the spark plugs in place and all the valves closed there may be enough compression to lift the head loose.
Then once you actually remove the head you can get the studs out with a quality made stud remover.
Click to expand...
The engine is out of the car, ( I am in the process of a full restoration ) so using the starter would be a challenge. I did try turning the engine over several times with the valves closed. That didn't move a thing. I could hear the compression leaking through the head gasket. That's why I believe the head is not stuck to the block, it's just stuck to the head studs.
Thanks, Scot
 
Even with the engine out of the car, the starter motor will not be too hard to set up and use. I would try that OR adapt a spark plug as an air feed fitting and supply compressed air to the cylinders until the head lifts off.

Regarding the rope trick, I did manage to ruin our Spitfire's 1500 engine using the rope trick to get the front pulley nut off. However, it was NOT the rod that we damaged. We collapsed the top of the piston so that it gripped the top compression ring. The rod was fine. To ruin the piston we had two people bouncing on the end of a 5 foot cheater bar so we were probably applying more than 1000 lb-ft of torque. You are not likely to duplicate my mistake with the engine out of the car.
 
dklawson said:
Even with the engine out of the car, the starter motor will not be too hard to set up and use. I would try that OR adapt a spark plug as an air feed fitting and supply compressed air to the cylinders until the head
Click to expand...

Doug,
Do you think the compression generated by spinning it faster with the starter would help ? The compression leaks out when turning it over with a breaker bar.

Thanks, Scot
 
Gliderman8 said:
I just removed and replace the head on my '76 about two weeks ago. What worked for me to get the head moving off the block was PLASTIC shims that I bought at the lumber yard. They are used to shim a door, etc.
I did manage to find a small space between the head and block so in inserted the thinnest part of the shim in there and tapped it in. I kept inserting the shims around the bottom of the head until it finally was free of the block, then I lifted it off. Obviously, the plastic was softer than the steel so I had no damage. Keep your screw drivers away in the drawer!
The plastic shims worked for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks Elliot ! I like the shim idea. I will be picking some shims up this week .Was your head extremely stuck ?
 
Scot1966 said:
Thanks Elliot ! I like the shim idea. I will be picking some shims up this week .Was your head extremely stuck ?
Click to expand...

Well, it was on there for 38 years. The biggest pain was scraping off the remnants of the gasket that stuck to the head.
 
Scot1966 said:
Doug,
Do you think the compression generated by spinning it faster with the starter would help ? The compression leaks out when turning it over with a breaker bar.
Click to expand...

Yes, spinning the engine on the starter will not give the air as much time to escape. Likewise, using your air compressor and making a spark plug adapter for a compressed air hose (can be made from some compression tester parts or old spark plugs) will also supply air quicker than it (should) leak past the rings and out the valves... until the head begins to unseat.
 
I found that the head has to come up fairly perpendicular to the block. Any tilting will cause it to get hung up. Maybe get two people lifting simultaneously on each end of the head.
 
Scot did say that 4 head studs were stuck in the block so maybe binding and not coming up straight is part of the problem as Elliot mentioned. If the head won't unseat with air supplied to the bores, I think the plastic wedge/shims Elliot mentioned might be just what is needed... working the head up a little at a time all the way around.
 
dklawson said:
Scot did say that 4 head studs were stuck in the block so maybe binding and not coming up straight is part of the problem as Elliot mentioned. If the head won't unseat with air supplied to the bores, I think the plastic wedge/shims Elliot mentioned might be just what is needed... working the head up a little at a time all the way around.
Click to expand...

I went to the lumber yard today at lunch and bought a box of 32 composite shims. I had a minute when I got home from work before the mad rush of running around picking up one daughter from volleyball practice, eating dinner, and bringing her sister to her volleyball practice. So I went to the garage to try the shims. The thin end of the shim is .035" thick. I wasn't able to get the shim started between the head and block because there wasn't enough room . It's that tight ! I will have to wait until Saturday to get out there again. This week is crazy. I may try pumping air in through the sparkplug holes. Although with how tight this thing is I am not very optimistic that will move it, but I will try it. So for now it's more PB Blaster and to bed I go.
 
Scott
use the lifting eye at the rear of the head for your leverage to remove the head,use two big screw drivers,put them inbetween the eye and that bolt on the rear of the head and see if you can get the head to break,this is the way I do them and have always got the head off
Philstr6 003.jpg002.jpg004.jpg005.jpg001.jpg
Phil
 
philstr6 said:
Scott
use the lifting eye at the rear of the head for your leverage to remove the head,use two big screw drivers,put them inbetween the eye and that bolt on the rear of the head and see if you can get the head to break,this is the way I do them and have always got the head off
Philstr6View attachment 34718View attachment 34719View attachment 34720View attachment 34721View attachment 34722
Phil
Click to expand...
Thanks Phil, I'll give it a try as soon as I get a minute to "Head" to the garage.
 
You have gotten lots of good ideas, I have never tried this, but if it is off the car and on an engine stand can you flip it upside down and let gravity do the work (with a large pillow, hay bale, bag of sand or something underneath it of course) turn it upside down, tap with wire wheel hammer or some other substantial whacking tool with a semi soft face of copper or lead, it would have to be stuck but good for this not to work I would think.
 
glemon said:
You have gotten lots of good ideas, I have never tried this, but if it is off the car and on an engine stand can you flip it upside down and let gravity do the work (with a large pillow, hay bale, bag of sand or something underneath it of course) turn it upside down, tap with wire wheel hammer or some other substantial whacking tool with a semi soft face of copper or lead, it would have to be stuck but good for this not to work I would think.
Click to expand...
.

THE HEAD IS OFF !

I tried the composite shims first, and didn't have any luck. The small end of the shim is .035" and there just wasn't enough space to get the shims started. This head was really stuck beyond anything I have ever worked on ! Next step... As suggested, I turned it upside down with 2 nuts just started on the threads just in case, and used a copper drift alternating the length of the head. After quite a few hits, it started to move. It took about an hour total, moving a few thousands at a time. Finally, it was free enough to be pulled off the 4 remaining studs. Once the head was off, the studs came out easily.
Thank you everyone for all the suggestions on this subject !

Scot
 
If you wire brush the studs and apply an anti-seize compound (on the unthreaded portion), it will come off much easier next time. Yes, there will probably be a next time.
Berry
 
Good deal, although as mentioned, I never tried it, when I have deal with stuck heads I always felt I was fighting two battles, one against gravity, and the other against friction or whatever was keeping the head on. Obviously flipping the motor you have gravity working with you not only adding its own force to your efforts, but also not taking that fraction of a mm movement back, like you tend to get with the head sitting atop the block, glad you got her done.
 
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