TR4/4A TR4 Oil Capacity

[Hoppy_H]

Can someone please tell me what the crankcase oil capacity is on my TR4. It is fitted with an after market spin on filter.

I plan to use Rotella T 15W40 diesel oil.

Thanks,
Hoppy

 

[joejoecat]

Mine takes about 6+ Qts. with a Wix filter.

 

[DanB]

Yeah, it takes a bunch. Probably about 6 qts.

 

[TR3driver]

Bit more, if you change the filter.

 

[JerryVV]

I don't think Rotella has enough ZDDP these days. You may want to check that fact to be certain.

 

[PeterK]

I think you're right. Now, even new tractors have CATs so they had to offer Rotella without the Zinc (which hurts CATs somehow). There was a discussion on tractorbynet some while ago about Rotella and the older CI-4 versions of Rotella had adequate ZDDP. But now they've changed over their oils to CJ-4 which is a different formulation.

 

[DNK]

Also depends on what size filter you use

 

[TR3driver]

FWIW, the specs for Valvoline All-Fleet still show lots of zinc. Also, O'Reillys has Valvoline VR1 Synthetic (1100 ppm zinc) on sale for $5.49/qt (at least near Los Angeles, maybe not everywhere).

I just cleaned out one local store, I'll visit another tonight :laugh:

 

[Hoppy_H]

Thanks for the replies. I had information that it took about 7 1/2 US quarts. I thought that sounded a wee bit high.

What is the most common oil used in TR's these days. I was thinking either Valvoline Racing or Rotella T. However; with the information I received here, I guess Rotella T is not an option.

Thanks for you replies.
Hoppy

 

[TR4nut]

I'm a big VR1 fan, and also, no to Rotella given a friend of mine's experience with cam issues and that oil. Zinc is important.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I had information that it took about 7 1/2 US quarts. I thought that sounded a wee bit high...

Part of the confusion may be due to the distance between ADD and FULL on the dipstick. I think that is about a 2 quart spread and one usually finds a particular spot where they like to see it (not necessarily all the way to FULL).

As for VR1... Amazon has a pretty good price considering it's free shipping and (for those outside of California) no sales tax. $5.67 a quart but it changes from day to day (went up 71¢/case since last night)...

https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV211-Fo...8944&sr=8-1

 

[TR3driver]

As for VR1... Amazon has a pretty good price considering it's free shipping and (for those outside of California) no sales tax. $5.67 a quart but it changes from day to day (went up 71¢/case since last night)...

https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV211-Fo...8944&sr=8-1

I was all set to jump on that; until I noticed that is for VR1 conventional. I'm a big believer in synthetic, the price I quoted at O'Reillys is for VR1 synthetic.

Just wanted to point out the distinction in case someone else didn't notice. One of the US car mags (R&T I think, might have been C&D) ran a test on the dyno a few years back. Some American muscle car. Baseline with appropriate conventional oil in engine, trans, diff; then change to synthetic and do it again. The increase in hp at the rear wheels wasn't huge, but it was significant (about 2-3% total as I recall).

 

[JerryVV]

Lots of us here in the mid-west and eastern stses use Brad Penn 20W-50. Don't know how available it is on the west coast. Check for sure but pretty much any of the oils that say for Racing Use will have the correct amount of zinc. Again check the bottle to be certain.
Don't leave home without the right amount of ZDDP in your oils. Cams that use flat tappet lifters will not last too long otherwise.

What I don't know for sure is it OK to use newer oils in engines that were broken in properly with ZDDP oils and have been driven many miles with the correct oils. In my case the cam has been in my car for 25 years, maybe more (original Kastner D Cam bought in the 60's)so has had good oils for all of it's life. Last visual I concluded it was in good shape. I'm not taking any chances and will continue to use Brad Penn, but it is curious to me if I would experience cam failure due to the newer oils after all of this time.

The reason that I bring this up is that it's my guess that there are a lot of owners who don't know about the need for higher than available ZDDP oils and will change their oils or have it changed by someone who doesn't know (Quick Change folks) and will end up causing damage to their engines.

 

[Gerald_Gordon]

The principal British-car mechanic in Dubuque, Iowa, recommends Joe Gibbs Driven HR15W-50 high-performance synthetic motor oil (https://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/) that is good for long-term storage and old engines requiring a high ZDP level and that would be changed every five thousand miles or ten years.

 

[TR4nut]

What I don't know for sure is it OK to use newer oils in engines that were broken in properly with ZDDP oils and have been driven many miles with the correct oils. In my case the cam has been in my car for 25 years, maybe more (original Kastner D Cam bought in the 60's)so has had good oils for all of it's life. Last visual I concluded it was in good shape. I'm not taking any chances and will continue to use Brad Penn, but it is curious to me if I would experience cam failure due to the newer oils after all of this time.

It may be urban legend, but I hear the Zinc needs to be continuous - not necessarily fatal if you miss a change with it, but it is not a one time sort of break in issue.

 

[TR3driver]

OTOH, I've been running Valvoline Synpower, which has relatively little zinc in it, for a long time in all my Triumphs; and I have yet to observe any damage that I attribute to oil. The engine in my TR3A was already worn when I got it (sitting in a field in Texas, in a TR3 that just happened to have an overdrive in it), had covered perhaps 150,000 miles since then, and was still running fine when it got wrecked. I did have some other problems, changed the bearings once or twice, replaced the head, but AFAIK those are still the original cam & lifters in there.

Best I can tell from the various literature, high levels of zinc are only needed in non-roller motors that have been fairly highly developed, with fast cam ramps and high rpm. We're talking engines that are so close to the edge that they routinely break through the oil film on the lifters & cam (which is where the zinc provides a benefit). A nearly-stock Triumph motor shouldn't have any trouble at all with modern oil, IMO. And since synthetic oils have a higher film strength, likely they don't need the zinc even in motors that do have trouble on "dinosaur juice".

But obviously I'm not going to guarantee that, and everyone seems to be recommending high zinc all the time because everyone else says the same thing. The FUD factor is very high (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) so no one is saying you don't need it, for fear they will be blamed for anything that goes wrong.

Including of course cams & tappets that aren't made correctly, which have been a problem almost as long as I've owned a Triumph; far longer than the flap over lack of zinc.

 

[Andrew Mace]

...everyone seems to be recommending high zinc all the time because everyone else says the same thing. The FUD factor is very high (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) so no one is saying you don't need it, for fear they will be blamed for anything that goes wrong.

Including of course cams & tappets that aren't made correctly, which have been a problem almost as long as I've owned a Triumph; far longer than the flap over lack of zinc.

*

I have to wonder if this is very much parallel to the "use a lead supplement or substitute or the valve seats will instantly recede and pop out of the head and...." discussion?

I've put probably 60,000 miles on my stock, original Herald engine in the past ten years, all of it with unleaded fuel and, for the past however many years with Castrol GTX 20W/50 (or 10W/40 in cold winter months), and all still seems quite well with the engine. I would mention that the #4 cylinder, last I checked, is down a bit on compression -- maybe 95 compared to around 125 for the other three, but I think that's to be expected in a small, hardworking little 1147cc with over 110,000 miles on it!

*(Agreement does not necessarily constitute endorsement; your mileage may vary; etc.! :wink: )

 

[Hoppy_H]

I found Valvoline VV211 20W50 racing oil on E-Bay for $4.99 a quart with free shipping. It is offred by Jeg's Performance. This is what I will go with.

Thanks for all your help.

Hoppy

 

[Don Elliott]

I use Castrol 10W30 in my 1958 TR3A with the addition of 4 oz. of ZDDP Plus every oil change. It runs fime.

 

[gubba]

Just changed mine yesterday..6 liters 20/50 Castrol and 1 bottle ZDDP. Thats 1 big jug ( 5 lit ) and 1 little one. Filled bang on the line. Now I could really use some SUNSHINE (