TR2/3/3A Sluge in Differential

[Redoakboo]

I am restoring a 54 TR-2 that has been napping for 30 years. I decided to attack the rear end today. After trying for two hours to get the drain plug off, I just took the rear cover off. I couldn't believe what came creeping out! Somehow moisture got in their with the little lube that was left and covered everything in the case. I could not see any sign of rust, after spraying a good de-greaser in there for about 5 minutes. The gears look fine, but I am going to remove the guts and soak them in a strong de greaser. I will check all the bearings out for any signs of rust.

Any more suggestions Big Helpers?

Dick Vinal

 

[Andrew Mace]

Does it all turn ok? Any sounds or "grinds" when it turns? Given the nature of differentials, I'd be more tempted to button it back up, fill with kerosene or the like and degrease that way, rather than disassemble it all and risk disturbing clearances and the like. But then I tend to be a bit too optimistic about such things, so let's see what other folks have to say.

 

[CJD]

Was it black sludge or milky colored water?

 

[Redoakboo]

No grinds, turns fine. I like your kerosene idea, If I can ever get the drain plug out. Now that I have the cover off, maybe I can grap it with my vise?

Dick

 

[Redoakboo]

Milky colored water.

Dick

 

[CJD]

I doubt you have water in the diff without some corrosion. But, if you are on a budget just refill it and run it. It won't cost any more to fix later than now...and who knows, you may get lucky.

 

[Sarastro]

You're better off than me. I opened mine, and about a quarter-cup of badly oxidized gear oil dripped out. I ended up replacing the ring and pinion and all the bearings, which were rusty.

I think I agree, though, with the others. If you can't see any sign of rust, or other obvious problems, clean it, refill it, and go. (OK, maybe a new pinion seal might not be a bad idea.) You can't inspect the bearings, but if everything turns smoothly, and there is no looseness, they are probably good enough. The alternative is to rebuild the sucker, a big job, or to buy another one, which might not be much better.

 

[DavidApp]

On the drain plug I would try to get a square wrench that fit well. Not an open sided wrench. A little heat carefully applied may help.

DAvid

 

[Jim_Stevens]

On the drain plug I would try to get a square wrench that fit well. Not an open sided wrench. A little heat carefully applied may help.

DAvid

X2 on the square socket. They’re available. I got mine off using an air impact wrench. Tightened by hand wrench, though.

 

[TR3driver]

8 point socket plus a big breaker bar. HF sells one that works well, but doesn't fit my toolbox drawer

+1 on clean in place. I would probably try to change all the seals, though. Originals were leather and its bound to be tired.

 

[martx-5]

I've had good luck with pipe wrenches in removing those..er..pipe plugs. If the teeth on the pipe wrench muck up the plug too much, new ones are available at the local hardware store.

 

[Redoakboo]

After I got the cover off, and removed the GOO, I took my grinder and squared off both sides of the plug. I could then get a good grip on it with my heavy vise grips. Kept hitting with hammer and PRESTO! off it came; will replace it though. I cleaned out the case as well as I could, put the cover back on and added 1 1/2 pints of a good degreaser I have been using. I turned the pinion gear and it turned pretty good, could tell there was still some stuff in there. The axle and spider gears just spun around.
Today I will spin some more and then drain the case, blow it out and then spray it heavy with oil, especially the bearings. When the new gasket arrives I will re-install the cover, install the new plug and add the new heavy weight oil back in; and say a prayer!

Dick

 

[sp53]

I would have a look at the vent on top; it is probably how the water got in, so it is probably open, but who knows because it sounds like it has been on the beach a few times.

 

[Redoakboo]

Where is the vent located?

 

[Redoakboo]

Randall,

I opened the cover, after leaving de-greaser in all night. Cleaned it up fairly well. The axle and spider gears are fine along with the axle bearings. I think I am going to have to replace the pinion bearing and seal, they don't turn as freely as the others. There is a spot where the pinion starts to hang up and then turns freely again. I can see the pinion gear and it looks fine, no nicks or chips.
Can't you replace this bearing and seal from the outside of the case?

Dick

 

[sp53]

The vent is on the top; it looks like a small hollow tube with a nut on the end. Do you have a Moss book to look at the pictures and identify them. The pictures they used are from the original manual for the most part and the Moss book is kinda the gold standard for parts identification and parts with their own numbers. Be very careful before you open up the end of the pumpkin because there is a very critical setting on the end play---kinda like a front wheel bearing but much more difficult. Everything has to go back the way it came out is how I was taught, and if you change the bearing that could have an effect on clearances and shims. Read up on this one and come back with an understanding of the shims and tightness of the large nut and how to get there and yes the bearing come out the front.

 

[Redoakboo]

Thanks for the info. Looking at the Rear Axle breakdown, in the Mtc Manual, it shows a Head and a Tail Pinion bearing. I can see how you could possibly remove the tail bearing from the outside, but the head bearing? Not sure which one might be bad. I can turn the driving flange fairly freely, no grinding noise, but there is a point in the rotation where it hesitates for a second, and then continues freely?

Dick

 

[TR3driver]

I would remove the input flange and the bearing cone if you can. Spray solvent into the other bearing and turn the shaft back and forth.
If you can't clear up the tight spot that way, I'm afraid the internals have to come out. The input cone can be removed (obviously), but the cup can't, and they should be replaced as a set. And the head bearing is a more likely failure (it takes a lot more load).

I had a somewhat similar experience a few years back, with a Stag differential (surprisingly similar to the TR unit internally) that was supposedly rebuilt. Kept trying to convince myself that the tight spot was just a packing peanut gone astray, but this is what I found when I got it apart.

You can build a spreader as shown in the book; or what I did was to just pry the carrier out

(note the pieces to protect the sealing surfaces)

But before doing that, I suggest blueing one of the gear teeth to study the contact pattern

You will want to duplicate this when you put it back together. The new bearings may or may not be the exact same dimension as the old ones, so you'll have to at least check and probably adjust the shim pack for any bearing you replace. It's actually very hard to pull the bearings without damaging the shims (and any visible damage means it must be replaced, even the slightest crease will change the thickness enough to matter), so plan on replacing all of them.

You have the right to hope that the carrier bearings are OK; if so then you can duck having to select shim packs for each of them. They lead a pretty easy life, so I'd leave them alone if you can't see anything wrong.

But the thrust washers are probably worth replacing just because. They don't affect the shim packs, are cheap, and do wear out over the miles.

I put a few more photos up at https://imgur.com/a/WRu29
that might help.

 

[Redoakboo]

I removed the flange and oil seal, which had already started coming apart and pieces were in the bearing, along with the sludge. By the time I blew out the area, sprayed in degreaser, blew it out again and sprayed oil all over the bearing it now turns without any hesitation. Ordered a new seal and gasket and another problem solved with my restoration.

Thanks for the help.

Dick

 

[sp53]

Glad it worked out. What I was trying to convey when I said things need to go back exactly the way they came apart was that I was taught even cotter key should go back in the same hole and the number of turns on the nut that it came apart should also be redone. I guess the thinking was when replacing the seal the rear end would not have been messed with before and the shim positioning is stock and correct so that there would be that very slight drag on the bearing with like zero slop. I hope this made sense.