TR2/3/3A OMG problem—the doors are too tight

[sp53]

Well I got the doors on, but I ran into a big WTF---OMG problem—the doors are too tight. I can live with the passenger side but the driver side is a none functional too tight.

I dropped the 2 shims out of the very back and the tub came down the ¼ inch thickness of the shim but for some reason that did not effect either B post. The tub is on the frame in the back with the shims out. Tomorrow, I am going to pull some of the shims out of the front and leave the center shims in place.

Years ago I talked to really decent body man, and he told me to work opposite sides and twist the body down and over when I had this problem, but I could not get that system to work. My plan is to remove some of the passenger front shims and hopefully that will open up the B post on the driver side as I tighten the tub back down. I only need about a 1/16 maybe 1/8; there is no room to push the door forward. I need the hole bigger and I do not see a way other than grinding. Any ideas are very welcome.

I fought these doors the whole way. I actually could have made more room when I was reassembling the car, but I wanted the door gap tight and for some reason moving the tub around I lost my initial fit.

 

[CJD]

Well, the passenger side looks awesome. Playing with the mounting shims is really the only option short of grinding. I will never understand how these cars can fit perfectly, but take it apart to paint and it never goes back the same. There isn't much thickness in the rear rubber, so that may be why it didn't help much. The pads up front, and center, are thicker, so you should see more change playing with those. Of course they will mostly affect the A-pillar, but that should still help.

I'm trying to visualize the twisting technique. I would still think removing pads from the front left would affect the driver's door gap favorably, while affecting the pax side the least.

 

[TR3driver]

Both the A-post and the front of the door will bend a bit, if you apply enough force. I've watched a professional body man close the door on a length of 2x4 and press on the exposed end, not too hard, to move the door just a bit.

 

[sp53]

I hear you John working the opposite side to pull the other side sounds too clever. I can kind of see it in theory when I think of triangles and I might try it, but not now.

I have changed my plan of attack to rising the center pads up by maybe a ¼ and then try and pull the A and B post down and out. Randall got me thinking with the 2x4 idea that I could make a spreader of a soft wood like cedar. Cut the board a little long maybe ½ inch and wedge it into the gap at the bottom of the A post and at the top at B post then tap it down to move the very top of the B post out some. The top is where the fit is tightest. Moreover, I would do the wedging after I raised the center up some.

I like the forcing the door idea because the tub might have become tweaked with all the moving around, and I am a carpenter and Hammers make a lot of sense to me, but I will say a big hammer was my first ideas that could have gone 2 ways and the one way scared me. Today I get nervous when my solution is a hammer!!

Or I might remove some of the front shims and try the wedge idea. I did used the thick pads by the aluminum pieces for a better cosmetic look under the hood because I think the Moss catalogue suggest that thickness and I think the cars came that way, but not sure. These are some of the problems when a person purchases a car cut in half-- one just does not know some of the little important things.

 

[Graham H]

You may have more luck trying to move the fenders forward, there is usually a bit of wiggle room in the mounting holes otherwise its make the doors shorter I don't think you will get much out of the body mounts .

Graham

 

[sp53]

Yes Graham I think so too; I restored a tr3 once that did not get any sills replaced, and I could not get any give at the doors with the shim pack replacement and move, maybe a little but I cracked the paint. I finally took the car to body friend that fixed it. I am not sure what he did and when I asked, he said are those the stock hinges and smiled and we got talking about something else. The car was a post 60K.

In this case, I might be able to bend the car at the top of the B posts and get enough room by raising the center and pulling down the back because I replaced the inner and outer sills myself and the welds could be better and the sheet metal was cut and moved around once. The factory stuff is very solid.

Anyone who is replacing the outer and inner sills should allow more room with the doors. I purposely made stuff tight. Heck I forgot what the gap looked like from the factory, but I do think there was not much wiggle room. When the inner and outer sills and floors are replaced together, the car is accentually cut in half. I guess a person could do one side at a time. Anyways, I could slide the front clip down on top of the inner sill--- back and forth and pick an opening. I wanted that tight look and got it. Plus I pushed the front fenders forward all I could.

Right now I am walking around the car in circles trying to let it sink into my mind. Part of me wants to lift the center at the B post and put 2 or 3 shims in there to see if that lifts the backup maybe a ½ inch higher then pull the car down in the back to open the B post at the top a 1/16 to 1/8 without cracking the paint. Another part wants me to pull all the shims out and start over because I had it once. Time to think and dialoging with others is one of the great things about the forum. Forgive me if I rambled on about thing, but it helps me process.

steve

 

[Graham H]

All food for thought, one thing we tend to forget is how much of our gaps are taken up in the final paint coat, both sides of the hinges pillars door frame and surround and so it goes on.

Graham

 

[sp53]

Right

 

[charleyf]

You stated that you had good clearance previously. If the above suggestions do not produce the desired clearance, I would suggest that you loosen the tub from the frame and use some device to spread the door opening to the desired length. Then put something in that opening to maintain that distance and bolt the body back onto the frame. Only after the body is tightened down on the frame do you remove the spreader.
I use 1" square tubing welded to the inner part of the body just inside the doors. This way I can test mount the doors during the restoration process. I will leave the braces in place until the body is mounted to the frame.

 

[DavidApp]

That was my fear as I fitted the body back to the frame and removed the bracing.
I did end up sanding the paint off some of the hinges to move the doors forward as far as I remember. Also doing a bit of work on the hinges. I was just trying to move the door around in the door opening and even out the gaps.

Good luck getting the fit right.

David

 

[CJD]

On mine I had everything trial fitted on the entire car, same frame, same pads, same bolts. I took it apart to paint, and the doors fit the holes, but I had to use shims to fit them. For some reason every time you reassemble these cars they fit just a hair differently. It may have to do with the order we install the parts and tighten them down??

 

[sp53]

Well I got the door to close, but it is tight. What a pain, I real had a difficult time. I pulled out all the front and back shims and unbolted everything because I did not know where to begin. Some of problems I can see now are the painting off both sides of the fender, door, and where the hinges and hardware install. From the factory, they left the paint off those areas on one side. I think Graham said that one.

One of my biggest mistakes was I used 2 different frames. I put one frame together with the engine and trans, suspension and all, then another frame to weld in the inner and outer sills and floor. The frame I used for welding was rusty but straight. The other frame had some damage I noticed when comparing the 2 after I had the problems. Perhaps it was more of a slight parallelogram and bent down some on one side. I honestly never consider how important a perfect frame is, so Frank and John time well spent.

I was surprised how much frame flex there is also. When moving shims around, it finally hit me the frame if flexing when I lift the car and unhook the body, so I needed the car sitting on the ground with the tub up in the air. For example, if the frame is lifted in the center with the body lose from the front, the frame will drop like 3/8, so the last I wanted to do was put a shim in because that would push the front back up when everything came back down. I real started feeling like a lizard crawling around the garage floor. One time in back, I lifted the frame and body together and used a jack-stand on the frame and lifted the body again with a second lift. What this did, was hold the frame up from flexing and not let the body separate correctly from the frame in the back. The frame needed to come down with its natural flex, but the jack-stand was holding the frame up—wow.

Anyways in the end I got the doors to function by visualizing the body lifting in the center and adding shims in the center then letting the front clip and back clip to fall back to the frame in its resting position.

steve

 

[CJD]

Steve, in the pictures it’s looking great! That bonnet to apron line looks perfect.

I hear you with the frame issue. I originally planned to use a spare frame to build the body on, so that I would not scratch the freshly restored and painted original frame. But once I studied the frames, I realized it would be a mistake assuming both frames were identical enough to provide equal platforms. So I carefully worked on the good frame.