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hold metal together?

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sp53

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hold metal together?

Hi all I have perhaps an obviously answerable question. If I am out working in the barn on my engine and the temperature is only 23 degrees, should I concern myself about loosening bolts at that frozen temperature or not. Does the cold steel hold the bolt tighter? Clearly rust and crud will hold metal together, but does a slightly sub-freezing temperature make a difference?
Steve
 
Re: hold metal together?

Not enough to argue about.
 
Re: hold metal together?

Just makes bustin a knuckle that much worse,only
 
Re: hold metal together?

No kidding! :cryin:

Scott
 
Re: hold metal together?

23 degrees outside is to cold for me to be working with nuts and bolts. It's around 45 here today, and I don't want anything to do with working on the car.
 
Re: hold metal together?

problem is that you can't tell you've busted the knuckle until you go inside and wonder where the trail of blood came from. :sick:

the older I get the fussier I get as to what I will tolerate in the garage. Which is why it's heated.
 
Re: hold metal together?

Yep...I put heat an electric heater in the garage a few years back. I was using kerosene, but the heater was always in the way. The electric heater is on a shelf and is much easier to use, and actually winds up costing me less then the kero despite the fact that I pay 20 cents a KWH.

Hey, I just noticed...there's no "cents" character on the keyboard. I remember old type writers having them. :laugh:
 
Re: hold metal together?

On mine (Mac) you get ¢ hitting opt-4. Maybe alt-4 for a windoze machine?
 
Re: hold metal together?

I googled it for a windoze machine ... alt 0162 using the numeric pad... ¢... ¢... see, it even works.

The trouble is, the next time I need it, I won't remember how to do it. :hammer:
 
Re: hold metal together?

The metal really doesn't notice much difference between 23 degrees F. and say 50 or 60, but I can tell you from lots of experience that my hands do. It is extremely difficult to work in those temperatures. Tools begin to stick to bare hands and try spinning on a nut while wearing heavy gloves. Things become much easier at around 40 but note that the car will stay cold much longer than the air.I'd advise working on something inside until the temperature gets at least above freezing. Tom
 
Re: hold metal together?

I use one of these

image_6320.jpg

which works well for me. The infrared 'shines' on me, so I don't have to wait for the air to warm up before I feel warm; and it's easily portable for when I'm working in the driveway.

Of course, it rarely gets below 40F around here, you'd probably want a bigger unit.

image_6319.jpg
 
Re: hold metal together?

I used one of those when I restored my TR4A in a drafty old barn and it worked pretty well to at least provide some very localized heat.

Scott
 
Re: hold metal together?

Randall and Herron (especially Herron), how do you find the propane radiant heaters work in a garage that is cold? My concern is propane has lower vapor pressure when cold and may not work at temperatures below 30. I used to have a "jet-engine" kerosene heater and when it finally was beyond repair I considered the radiant propane heaters but was concerned that they would not work well in a really cold environment.
 
Re: hold metal together?

Doug,

Randall can probably speak to this better than I can since my experience was in a big 3 bay barn-style building (storage for an old auto dealership with tons of old Metropolitan Nash body parts etc. Owner said it was his retirement fund. :smile:)

Definitely not anywhere near air-tight and as a result low 30s was about the coldest that I did any work there. It did help keep me warm in the general area that I was working though.

I did find a review of one on Amazon where a user mentioned that it worked well even below 30.

Scott
 
Re: hold metal together?

dklawson said:
My concern is propane has lower vapor pressure when cold and may not work at temperatures below 30.
Click to expand...
That should not be a problem until well below 0F. The propane vapor goes through a pressure regulator that is set to just a few psi, and the vapor pressure of propane is still 15 psi at -10F. Somewhere around -30F I would guess you would see somewhat reduced heater output, but it should still work well enough to warm the tank eventually.

And if that is still a problem, you could always wrap some heat tape around the tank or something similar. In an emergency, I've even heard of urinating on the tank; although building a small wood fire against the side sounds more sanitary to me.
 
Re: hold metal together?

People here in MN use them all winter long to heat their fish houses and many people heat their homes with propane. It gets well below the -30 mark here quite often and i have never heard of anyone having issues.
 
Re: hold metal together?

Darwin said:
It gets well below the -30 mark here quite often and i have never heard of anyone having issues.
Click to expand...
There was an article in the news some years (decades?) ago about a cold snap where folks were without heat because the propane would not vaporize.

As I recall, the boiling point of pure propane is -44F, but what is commonly sold as "propane" is actually a mixture of propane and other gases (hence the other common name of LPG or Liquified Petroleum Gas) which has a higher boiling point. In some areas they actually adjust the mix to match the weather.

The other problem is that the propane gets colder as it boils (to form gas) so drawing hard on a bottle that started at -30F might well chill it to -44F. (This is the same way refrigeration works, and in fact a propane/butane mixture makes a good refrigerant.)
 
Re: hold metal together?

Thanks for the feedback guys. Obviously where I live doesn't see too many evenings close to 0 oF. However, I have noticed that the tank pressure on my grill goes way down in cold weather and I was concerned that I would get to a situation where the vaporization of the fuel would lower the tank to an unacceptable pressure level even with fuel left in the tank.

I like the idea of keeping a section of water pipe heater tape available as a tank warmer. That is an excellent idea and may just prompt me to go ahead and take the plunge for a propane heater.
 
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