Crankshaft Dog Nut and Timing Chain Cover Removal

[Johnski3000]

I have a 65 BJ8
I have read through the archives on this subject, but have a question on what really needs to be disconnected to jack the engine up and how much it really needs to jacked up.

The steps as I understand it are:
1) Remove radiator, fan, flatten the lock tab, and use PB blaster or equivalent to help loosen the nut.
2) Loosen the engine mount bolts, replace the two rear bolts with longer bolts to keep things aligned.
3) disconnect a) throttle linkage, b) exhaust pipes at manifold flange, and c) loosen the overdrive - chassis tie rod
4) jack the engine up and remove the nut with 1 11/16 impact wrench or slugging wrench, socket or spanner depending on the difficulty.

The questions I have is how much does the engine need to jacked up? ~ 3.5 inch to clear harmonic balancer or ~ 2.5 in to clear the pulley? Do I really have to disconnect all the items in # 3? Anything else I may have missed that need to be disconnected?
Trying to understand how cautious I need to be with disconnecting things / clearances, since I last did this 30 years ago on an engine stand.

Hopefully can get advice from someone who has done this with engine in the car.
Johnski

 

[gonzo]

Hey Johnski,
You did your homework.
Yes the work can be achieved with engine installed if prep steps 1 - 4 are followed. Also suggest:

- Loosen / remove rear transmission brackets to prevent damage to the upper rubber mounts (mine ripped and had to replace). This requires the trans tunnel to be removed.
- Lift engine to clear crankshaft nut from crossmember and gain access with impact gun and socket. There should be sufficient room to pull harmonic balancer and slip between crossmember. The HB on BJ 7s are bolt-on two-piece and "easier" to remove in two pieces; early BJ8s may have same configuration.
- Use quick blasts from an impact gun to spinoff nut. Other methods require the engine to be locked somehow to prevent movement. Newer e-impact guns have similar power to pneumatic - I've used both.
- Plan to install redi-sleeve to smooth out worn pulley snout; it's easy

Do you plan to R&R timing chain, sprocket / gear and tensioner? Denis Welch Motorsports U.K have upgraded tensioner as replacement - think it's from a Jag.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If you have stock exhaust downpipes, you shouldn't have to disconnect them; there should be plenty of flex in the flexible portion of the pipes. It's sometimes hard to get a good seal at the manifold flange; I'd loosen them at the front muffler instead but, again, I don't think it's necessary. Last time I did this, the dog nut refused to budge until I got a 3/4" air impact wrench from Harbor Freight (one-time job, I hope).

Ditto on the upgraded tensioner; wish I'd done it when I overhauled my engine (they are known to self-destruct).

 

[John Turney]

That all sounds good to me.

In addition to disconnecting the throttle linkage, be careful of the throttle cross rod above the trans. It might get bent.

 

[roscoe]

I have a 100 but I imagine this would work for a six cyinder car. One way to lock up the engine so you can torque or undo the nut is to pull a spark plug and fill a cylinder that is near the bottom of it's stroke with rope. A 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch soft nylon rope works for me. Turn the engine in the undo direction with an appropriately sized big ass wrench until it compresses the rope and then start beating on the wrench with a large hammer. If this makes you nervous you can back off the valve adjustment ( I do this) so both valves are closed and you put no stress on the valve train.

If you can get a box end wrench or a socket on the nut from under the car you might not have to do anything else. I'm sorry I don't know if the geometry of a 6 is different from a 4 with the nut and the crossmember or radiator. I've done this with a pipe wrench on one occasion using only what I've described and a set of ramps to get some space under the front end. I do not think you could hurt a connecting rod or piston this way if an impact wrench doesn't bother you either. Oh yes, PB blaster or other penetrant, maybe a heat gun will help.

This is something I did routinely ( on some helicopter piston engines) to actually remove the keepers and valve springs on an exhaust valve that was sticking when it was at temperature. The fix was to then push the valve into the clinder until it went clink!, then the guide could be reamed to decarbonize it. The hard part was getting the valve back into the guide. It involved little crutch tools made from welding rod, lots of swearing, a fair amount of time, magnets and little fiberoptic flashlights. It was kind of nice that the cylinders had two spark plugs so you could stick your light in one and work and look through the other. Let me know if this might work for you.

 

[tahoe healey]

I'd use a 2x6 or 2x8 under the oil pan to distribute the pressure from a bottle jack to raise the engine. I have a couple if you need to borrow them. I have a bunch of jack stands too. (you know where to find me.) Be safe under there.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Ha; been there done that. I used a 2x4, and my pan had a perfect 2x4 indentation across it; a year or two later, I clanged the pan on the driveway curb and welding in place didn't work. Luckily, I found an almost pristine pan on eBay.

 

[Johnski3000]

Thanks for your input, not sure what a "redi-sleeve" is. Can you explain? I was going to look at the tensioner, etc. Thanks for the info on Denis Welch tensioiner.

 

[Johnski3000]

Thanks, I have the oil pan pulled already, so think I can just put a wood block on the crank.

 

[tahoe healey]

A redi-sleeve replaces the space caused by wear. It may be, in fact, the cause of your leak around the shaft. If so, you may not have to do so much work with the timing chain, et al.

 

[Johnski3000]

I have a SS exhaust, but it does have the flexible connection. The idea of loosening at the muffler sounds like the way to go. I just replaced a blown exhaust manifold gasket and also put in a new gasket at the manifold to pipe connection, so I really didn't want to mess with that. Thanks

 

[John Turney]

Thanks for your input, not sure what a "redi-sleeve" is. Can you explain? I was going to look at the tensioner, etc. Thanks for the info on Denis Welch tensioiner.

Redi-sleeves compensate for wear on the shaft from rubbing on the seal: https://www.timken.com/products/timken-mechanical-power-transmission-products/seals/redi-sleeves/

 

[steveg]

Redi-sleeves/Speedi-sleeves - British Car Specialists sells them as do many other suppliers. I put one on my crank pulley sealing surface ages ago. Easy once you've got the engine raised and dog nut off.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Redi-sleeves/Speedi-sleeves - British Car Specialists sells them as do many other suppliers. I put one on my crank pulley sealing surface ages ago. Easy once you've got the engine raised and dog nut off.

Takes a slightly different sized seal, though, no?

 

[John Turney]

Takes a slightly different sized seal, though, no?

According to Timken, the sleeves are so thin that they don't.

 

[Johnski3000]

Thanks for all the input, I now understand what the redi-sleeve is for. I have got the engine raised enough to get at the dog nut, still working at that, but since I have a later 3000, I also have the one piece harmonic balancer and pulley. Has anyone actually raised the engine enough to get that harmonic balancer portion to clear the cross member? Seems like I need to go quite a bit more to do that after I get the dog nut off.

Johnski

 

[Bob_Spidell]

It's doable; I did it, but it was years ago (I have a P2 BJ8). I think, if you have enough room to get the dog nut off you can get the pulley/balancer off; I remember it was difficult to get the impact wrench with socket on the nut, but it got done, and there's (just) enough room to get the pulley/balancer off. IIRC, there's a couple threaded holes on the pulley/balancer for a puller, but don't remember what I did to get it off.

 

[Johnski3000]

Thanks to all who replied, it made the project much easier. I got the harmonic balancer / pulley off (single piece unit from a later 3000) and am now inspecting for wear. I can not see any discernable / measurable wear on the pulley shaft, so looks like I don't need a redi-sleeve. Is that oil thrower washer just supposed to ride on the the non-keyed portion of the shaft?

I am reposting all the steps I used, so I can remember the next time I or someone else has to do this.
The steps I took are:
1) Remove radiator, fan, flatten the lock tab, and use PB blaster or equivalent to help loosen the nut.
2) Loosen the engine mount bolts, replace the two rear bolts with 4 inch bolts to keep things aligned and allow enough lift for the harmonic balancer to clear the crossmember.
3) Disconnect a) throttle linkage, b) exhaust pipes at muffler, and c) loosen the overdrive - chassis tie rod, d) loosen the transmission mounting bolts (under the transmission tunnel), and e) remove the air cleaners on the carbs.
4) Jack the engine up using wood blocks under the block (I had removed my oil pan) and remove the nut with 1 11/16 impact wrench or slugging wrench, socket or spanner depending on the difficulty. I had the oil pan off, so was able to insert a wood block between the crank and engine block to prevent the crankshaft turning. (Note: the left side of my engine did not raise as high as the right, maybe due to stiff exhaust pipes)
5) Pull the harmonic damper / pulley using a puller and two bolts screwed into the damper.

 

[Johnski3000]

A couple more items to add for number #3 - f) remove the choke cable bracket, and g) watch out for the grommets on the heater hoses as you raise the engine. (I managed to pop one of the heater hose grommets inside the firewall, no big deal, but a hassle if you can avoid it.)

 

[Madflyer]

If you are not going to change the sleeve Try to polish it with some 600 wet- dry sand paper and WD 40. and a light lube when replacing cover. They do not really go bad as to damage seal. The seal went bad as to age and if the tension spring broke in seal. On my TR 6 the first time I just turned the sleeve around and polished it this last year The seal was 25 years old and as did not pull the motor a quick polish and new seal chain and the like . The difference with the TR is the cross member unbolts. Just to note LBC's do not leak they just mark their parking spot. Madflyer